New head gasket better than Cometic!

wickedtsi · Jun 27, 2005

I am looking to boost 30 psi and after my stock HG went I went for the copper HG O-ringed in the head. The machine shop had a hard time o-ringing it because of their tooling. To make a long story short they had to buy me a new head and start over. Time to re-think my options. I called a few gasket manufactures and found a very promising HG that will hold mad boost levels and has the o-ring built into the HG. It is made from SCE it is called the Titan ICS. It is self-sealing requires no machining and no sealant. It is made of copper, it has a bead of RTV around each coolant and oil port, and it also has a stainless steel wire machined in the center of the HG around each combustion port. SCE has tested this gasket on a small block Chev 286 V8 twin turbocharged with 43 psi boost it made 1833 Hp using this gasket. That equates to 6.3 hp/cubic inch and an estimated 3300 psi cylinder pressure. If this gasket can hold up to this abuse it should have no problem for our motors. So I called SCE to order one up, unfortunately they are on back order for three weeks. I told them I need it by the weekend. He referred me to Darren at Fast Forward Connection They specialize in DSMs and building kick ass blocks. This guy was super nice and had the exact gasket I needed in stock. Within two days I had the gasket at my door. This last weekend I installed the gasket and it sealed perfectly without any issues. I just thought I would share this knowledge to the rest of my fellow DSMers.

TSIfreek · Jun 27, 2005

Thanks for the info. What did the HG run you??

Scrymerr · Jun 27, 2005

wickedtsi said:
He referred me to Darren at Fast Forward Connection They specialize in DSMs and building kick ass blocks. This guy was super nice and had the exact gasket I needed in stock.

Darren was really helpful when I called as well, and took a lot of time out hof his day to explain things to me and lay everything out. Now all I need to do is save up enough money to buy the motor I want!!

wickedtsi · Jun 27, 2005

TSIfreek said:
Thanks for the info. What did the HG run you??

It was around $160, Well worth the price.

TSIfreek · Jun 27, 2005

If I blow my stock one out that will be the one I get.

VisionPaintball · Jul 2, 2005

Did you O-ring the block?

Turbo Talon DL · Jul 3, 2005

I have the Mitsu MLS HG. I didnt use any sealant what so ever, I just torqued the bolts in stages: 24ft/lb, 48ft/lb, 72ft/lb. It seems to be holding up OK so far, no oil in water or anything like that, and the car seems to want LOTS more boost.

bullettdsm · Jul 4, 2005

wickedtsi, keep us posted on the HG when you put a few thousand on it. The real test of a HG is longevity. Not that I am dissin' on this HG but I am apprehensive on the RTV idea for a HG. Our engines seems to take a lot more heat and abuse in a smaller area (i.e, 4 cyl) than the larger engine that you quoted. The numbers sound interesting but I am curious about the longevity on our engines.
MB

wickedtsi · Jul 4, 2005

VisionPaintball said:
Did you O-ring the block?

NO, you don't have to o-ring the block to use this gasket.

wickedtsi · Jul 4, 2005

bullettdsm said:
wickedtsi, keep us posted on the HG when you put a few thousand on it. The real test of a HG is longevity. Not that I am dissin' on this HG but I am apprehensive on the RTV idea for a HG. Our engines seems to take a lot more heat and abuse in a smaller area (i.e, 4 cyl) than the larger engine that you quoted. The numbers sound interesting but I am curious about the longevity on our engines.
MB

So far so good. I only boosted to 10 psi so far. Just taking it easy, not sure if my knock circuit is working. I'll keep you posted

DSMJim · Jul 5, 2005

SCE Copper gaskets are not new by any stretch of the imagination.

I was speaking with these guys at the SEMA show a few years ago and they gave me all this info and made these gaskets sound like they were the cats ass and they are the end all be all of head gaskets.

I was at the show talking to some other racers, mostly Honda Guys, and they went through the whole SCE gaskets phase. They said they couldn't get them to seal worth a shit, even with a decked block and head. A buddy of mine tried two or three in his All Motor honda and it kept leaking. They never blow, but after a few passes it just keep leaking and leaking more.

Talking about a 1900hp pro drag car is not a good compairoson. THey change the head gaskets after a few passes anyway so if they leak slightly it's not an issue. On a street car these are not a viable option. Unfortunately you will have a leaking head gasket on your hands in a matter of either weeks or months, depends on how much you drive it.

As a matter of fact when I was in the SCE booth at Sema some of the Titan guys came buy and started to tell the guy they ran the gaskets in some of their street 4 and 6 cylinder cars and they kept blowing up etc. The guy just said they were using them wrong and started making a stink about it. Eventually we had to leave.

Here's some interesting threads about Copper Gaskets I found quickly.. These are mostly big block guys, but remember everything we do came from them anyway.

http://racingjunk.com/forums/mvnforum/viewthread?thread=775
http://www.krcperformance.com/newcontent/gasketfaq.html

The links go on and on. Basically they all say, not for use on a wet block because they are a water sealing nightmare even with copper spray. Do a Google. There are mixed reviews on them, but enough reports with problems to know they don't seal for a street car.

wickedtsi · Jul 5, 2005

DSMJim said:
SCE Copper gaskets are not new by any stretch of the imagination.

You are right SCE gaskets have been around for a long time. What I'm talking about is The Titan ICS gascke that just came out in 2005. What you are talking about occured a couple of years ago, then all they had was a plain copper and the Titan. It sounds like the Honda guys you are talikng about are using just a plain Copper HG as well as the people in the links that you provided. I agree a Plain Copper HG won't seal very well, if all in a wet block. We will see how well this gasket performs for us, time will tell. So far I've hit 16 psi and have not had a problem yet. So far so good.

Lunch_Box · Jul 5, 2005

Get that shit up to 30+ Psi so I know how it can perform. I just ordered mine so hopefully it likes boost.

DSMJim · Jul 6, 2005

wickedtsi said:
You are right SCE gaskets have been around for a long time. What I'm talking about is The Titan ICS gascke that just came out in 2005. What you are talking about occured a couple of years ago, then all they had was a plain copper and the Titan. It sounds like the Honda guys you are talikng about are using just a plain Copper HG as well as the people in the links that you provided. I agree a Plain Copper HG won't seal very well, if all in a wet block. We will see how well this gasket performs for us, time will tell. So far I've hit 16 psi and have not had a problem yet. So far so good.

This is true, however all the people were talking about have o-ringed their blocks or head and still ran into problems.

Copper gaskets are notorius for leaking. If you drive it and it doesn't leak your lucky, however many guys though the same then eventually they leaked anyway. Good luck to you and report your findings to us.

Unfortunately I'm not optimistic.

wickedtsi · Jul 6, 2005

DSMJim said:
This is true, however all the people were talking about have o-ringed their blocks or head and still ran into problems.

Copper gaskets are notorius for leaking. If you drive it and it doesn't leak your lucky, however many guys though the same then eventually they leaked anyway. Good luck to you and report your findings to us.

Unfortunately I'm not optimistic.

It's the coolant that seems to be the hardest to seal. I am optimistic that this gasket will solve both issues with using copper; integral stainless o-ring in the gasket, and an RTV stand up of .003" around all the coolant and oil ports. The more DSMers that try this new gasket will be the better we will be able to conclude if this is the best gasket we have available to us.

RiceKiller_TSi · Jul 6, 2005

wickedtsi said:
The more DSMers that try this new gasket will be the better we will be able to conclude if this is the best gasket we have available to us.

I doubt you'll find many dsmers willing to undergo this project risking time and money just to find out if this head gasket is fubared.

Lunch_Box · Jul 6, 2005

RiceKiller_TSi said:
I doubt you'll find many dsmers willing to undergo this project risking time and money just to find out if this head gasket is fubared.

Well I picked one up for my car so there are at least 2 of us. My car should be running with in the next couple of weeks so I will let you know how it reacts to high boost on a 2.4L.

wickedtsi · Jul 6, 2005

RiceKiller_TSi said:
I doubt you'll find many dsmers willing to undergo this project risking time and money just to find out if this head gasket is fubared.

I'm not saying that DSMers should just go and change out their perfectly good HG and use this one. I'm saying as they blow a HG keep this one in mind when choosing a new one.

DSMJim · Jul 6, 2005

wickedtsi said:
I'm not saying that DSMers should just go and change out their perfectly good HG and use this one. I'm saying as they blow a HG keep this one in mind when choosing a new one.

The problem I guess is the title to this thread. Your saying these are better than Cometic which is infact not true. Cometic are proven to withstand 35+psi on full race engines. These are not. Until they have a track record, better is not one thing they they are, copper yes, better no. Time may prove otherwise, but until then...

wickedtsi · Jul 6, 2005

DSMJim said:
The problem I guess is the title to this thread. Your saying these are better than Cometic which is infact not true. Cometic are proven to withstand 35+psi on full race engines. These are not. Until they have a track record, better is not one thing they they are, copper yes, better no. Time may prove otherwise, but until then...

You have a very good point. They are not track proven and perhaps the title is a little presumptuous. The reason why I said that they are better is that you have no special block preparations like ensuring a low RA value surface and no o-ringing. If the MLS is not prepped right you can get inconsistent results, like the gasket works for one person and not the next. Here you don't have that issue. If you like Cometic that's great! I was just informing My fellow DSMers about a new option that we have.

wishihadatalon · Jul 6, 2005

Sorry if this is a little off track but what do you think of their exhaust gaskets?

wickedtsi · Jul 6, 2005

wishihadatalon said:
Sorry if this is a little off track but what do you think of their exhaust gaskets?

I'm not sure, I have never tried them. I'd be willing to give them a try. The next exhaust gasket I need will be theirs.

DSMJim · Jul 7, 2005

wickedtsi said:
I'm not sure, I have never tried them. I'd be willing to give them a try. The next exhaust gasket I need will be theirs.

Apparently copper for the exhaust gaskets are the shit, but the stock MLS gasket works just fine for everything I have seen..

wishihadatalon · Jul 7, 2005

Well I was just wondering b/c I am running one but I had a leak. Tightened up the bolts after it cooledd (tried when it was hot but it didn't work so good) and its held fine.

wickedtsi · Jul 7, 2005

wishihadatalon said:
Well I was just wondering b/c I am running one but I had a leak. Tightened up the bolts after it cooledd (tried when it was hot but it didn't work so good) and its held fine.

Yeah, it seems like with plain copper you have to do a heat sequence and warm it up, let it cool down annd retorque. Just as you did.

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