2GTalonESI_Fan
Probationary Member
- 2
- 0
- Nov 11, 2004
-
sacramento,
California
Need assistance, starts then dies
I have had this car for about 5 years and finally getting ready to pay it off. Bought it for $8K, 30K miles. So far it has been one of the best running, funniest cars Ive ever owned. I ABSOLUTLY love my little Eagle. Found out through carfax that it was purchased new in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. From there it took a trip to Germany for about there years (it my not have a turbo but at least I can say thats its been on the autobahn). It must have been purchased by someone in the Air Force because Tinker A.F.B. is in Oklahoma City.
Anyway on to the problem.
A little more than a week ago I changed the rear brakes because I was getting a nasty shimmy in the front end when I braked. I got them changed, degreased the engine and then ran it around town for about a half hour just to make sure everything was alright with the brakes and engine. It all ran fine, no problems at all.
Well, the next morning I jump in and start it (I always let it warm up for at LEAST 30 seconds, usually about 2 minutes). I take off at normal speed, make my first turn and it dies, dashboard lights come on strong, headlights still on and strong. There were NO grinding noises, clunks, clangs or ANY type heard from engine noise at all. I get to the side of the road and try to start it, stays running for 3-4 seconds and dies. I get it pushed home and wait for daylight.
Over the last week I have changed the plugs and wires, checked the fuel pump (damn thing squirted 6 ft. in the air from the test valve so I would say the pump itself is nice and strong). I did do one little odd ball test, I still have the old fuel pump and ASD relays from when I had this problem about 4 years ago (it didnt fix it then, it just magically started 4 days later and has ran perfect since). I pulled out the old relays from the black plastic casings and used a toothpick (non-conductive) to make the relay manually connect. The engine ran for about 30-40 seconds then died. The only thing I noticed was that the engine sounded only slightly out of tune, almost didn't notice till I really listened to it, but was able to rev the engine just fine.
I checked the TPS and found proper voltage at the harness plug and smooth resistance change on the TPS itself. Pulled the CAS and checked it no CW because the tip was fine BUT I put voltmeter on the harness connector and had 4.97 volts on one pin and .08 volts on the other pin where there should be around 8 to 9 volts. Rented a ODM II from Auto Zone and it was saying the engine coolant sensor was bad so I went ahead and changed it since it was only $20 bucks and proceeded to totally break in half the water temperature gauge sending unit that was right below it (DOH! my name is fred and I know how to fix cars NOT!) but got it replaced. Then I pulled CAM sensor, it looked fine but I found the same voltages on its connector as I found on the CAS connector. NOT GOOD possible PCM problem. I decided to start checking the other sensors just because I didnt want to believe that the PCM was bad (money is tight and I have A LOT of friends coming out for thanksgiving). Found the IAF (intake air temperature sensor) was open--->no resistance at all. I went down to Radio Shack and got some 5.6K ohm resisters to simulate the IAF (auto parts stores and junkyards were closed), if I need to lower resistance to simulate a warmer condition I can put some more resisters in parallel to lower the ohms if need be. I am hoping this is the problem, put everything back together went to start it .dead battery. Put the charger on it last night (2AMP) so that I could get a nice fresh battery in the morning. So here I sit afraid to go out there and try it because I just know that it wont start and I will have to spend the bucks on another PCM. I have not checked the compression but if someone REALLY, REALLY wants me to I will go down today and get one today but I don't believe that it is the problem.
I have searched this forum for the last week, looking for any and all possible problems that can lead to this condition and have checked all that I could. I have tried to do the research to the best of my ability.
*Just as a side note: When I did have this problem before I signed up for the talon digest back when it was still running so I am familiar with some problems with DSM cars but FAR from an expert ..as if you couldnt tell that .
The only things left that I can possibly think of that would cause low voltage to the CAS and cam sensor is: PCM, O2 sensor, MAP sensor (cannot find out how to check the voltages to it or how to check the sensor itself, let me know if its possible, EGR????. Is there anyway to check the CAS and cam sensors themselves?????. I have read and been told about the ISC---->is this a turbo only part??? because I cannot find it.
Please help .I need to get my baby back on the road (she say's pretty please). Im truly at my wits end.
4ever
__________________________________________________________________________
After alot of research and testing I finally realized that my problem was the 9 volts not getting to the CAS, CAM, and speed sensor.
I had started testing the wire harness from the PCM and found the PIN 4 YELLOW 9 volt wire was shorting to PIN 11 BLACK/GREEN Ground Sense. It was not a straight short but had a 80 to 160 ohms of resistance. WELL...while I was doing the testing I thought I had the CAS, CAM, and speed sensor connectors disconnected, what I thought was the speed sensor was actually the reverse light switch-----> DOH!!. I finally found the real speed sensor buried back behind the battery on top of the transaxle COATED with gunk,crap and oil. It was so bad that I would have missed it if it wasn't for the wire loom going to it. I had also found 4 ground wires tied together that were loose and got them cleaned up and tightened down.
After getting it cleaned off and unplugged I found that the connecter was starting to disintigrate. I got everything cleaned up and plugged it back in (the short to pin 11 disappeared) she fired up right away. I let it warm up, drove it around the block with no problems. My speedometer still dosen't work but at least it runs. Don't know if its the connector or sensor. I will check that out more at a later date.
Tomorrow I am going to take it a little farther around town with the girlfriend following just in case.
1995 Eagle Talon ESI non-Turbo (NO MODS AT ALL)
I have had this car for about 5 years and finally getting ready to pay it off. Bought it for $8K, 30K miles. So far it has been one of the best running, funniest cars Ive ever owned. I ABSOLUTLY love my little Eagle. Found out through carfax that it was purchased new in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. From there it took a trip to Germany for about there years (it my not have a turbo but at least I can say thats its been on the autobahn). It must have been purchased by someone in the Air Force because Tinker A.F.B. is in Oklahoma City.
Anyway on to the problem.
A little more than a week ago I changed the rear brakes because I was getting a nasty shimmy in the front end when I braked. I got them changed, degreased the engine and then ran it around town for about a half hour just to make sure everything was alright with the brakes and engine. It all ran fine, no problems at all.
Well, the next morning I jump in and start it (I always let it warm up for at LEAST 30 seconds, usually about 2 minutes). I take off at normal speed, make my first turn and it dies, dashboard lights come on strong, headlights still on and strong. There were NO grinding noises, clunks, clangs or ANY type heard from engine noise at all. I get to the side of the road and try to start it, stays running for 3-4 seconds and dies. I get it pushed home and wait for daylight.
Over the last week I have changed the plugs and wires, checked the fuel pump (damn thing squirted 6 ft. in the air from the test valve so I would say the pump itself is nice and strong). I did do one little odd ball test, I still have the old fuel pump and ASD relays from when I had this problem about 4 years ago (it didnt fix it then, it just magically started 4 days later and has ran perfect since). I pulled out the old relays from the black plastic casings and used a toothpick (non-conductive) to make the relay manually connect. The engine ran for about 30-40 seconds then died. The only thing I noticed was that the engine sounded only slightly out of tune, almost didn't notice till I really listened to it, but was able to rev the engine just fine.
I checked the TPS and found proper voltage at the harness plug and smooth resistance change on the TPS itself. Pulled the CAS and checked it no CW because the tip was fine BUT I put voltmeter on the harness connector and had 4.97 volts on one pin and .08 volts on the other pin where there should be around 8 to 9 volts. Rented a ODM II from Auto Zone and it was saying the engine coolant sensor was bad so I went ahead and changed it since it was only $20 bucks and proceeded to totally break in half the water temperature gauge sending unit that was right below it (DOH! my name is fred and I know how to fix cars NOT!) but got it replaced. Then I pulled CAM sensor, it looked fine but I found the same voltages on its connector as I found on the CAS connector. NOT GOOD possible PCM problem. I decided to start checking the other sensors just because I didnt want to believe that the PCM was bad (money is tight and I have A LOT of friends coming out for thanksgiving). Found the IAF (intake air temperature sensor) was open--->no resistance at all. I went down to Radio Shack and got some 5.6K ohm resisters to simulate the IAF (auto parts stores and junkyards were closed), if I need to lower resistance to simulate a warmer condition I can put some more resisters in parallel to lower the ohms if need be. I am hoping this is the problem, put everything back together went to start it .dead battery. Put the charger on it last night (2AMP) so that I could get a nice fresh battery in the morning. So here I sit afraid to go out there and try it because I just know that it wont start and I will have to spend the bucks on another PCM. I have not checked the compression but if someone REALLY, REALLY wants me to I will go down today and get one today but I don't believe that it is the problem.
I have searched this forum for the last week, looking for any and all possible problems that can lead to this condition and have checked all that I could. I have tried to do the research to the best of my ability.
*Just as a side note: When I did have this problem before I signed up for the talon digest back when it was still running so I am familiar with some problems with DSM cars but FAR from an expert ..as if you couldnt tell that .
The only things left that I can possibly think of that would cause low voltage to the CAS and cam sensor is: PCM, O2 sensor, MAP sensor (cannot find out how to check the voltages to it or how to check the sensor itself, let me know if its possible, EGR????. Is there anyway to check the CAS and cam sensors themselves?????. I have read and been told about the ISC---->is this a turbo only part??? because I cannot find it.
Please help .I need to get my baby back on the road (she say's pretty please). Im truly at my wits end.
4ever__________________________________________________________________________
After alot of research and testing I finally realized that my problem was the 9 volts not getting to the CAS, CAM, and speed sensor.
I had started testing the wire harness from the PCM and found the PIN 4 YELLOW 9 volt wire was shorting to PIN 11 BLACK/GREEN Ground Sense. It was not a straight short but had a 80 to 160 ohms of resistance. WELL...while I was doing the testing I thought I had the CAS, CAM, and speed sensor connectors disconnected, what I thought was the speed sensor was actually the reverse light switch-----> DOH!!. I finally found the real speed sensor buried back behind the battery on top of the transaxle COATED with gunk,crap and oil. It was so bad that I would have missed it if it wasn't for the wire loom going to it. I had also found 4 ground wires tied together that were loose and got them cleaned up and tightened down.
After getting it cleaned off and unplugged I found that the connecter was starting to disintigrate. I got everything cleaned up and plugged it back in (the short to pin 11 disappeared) she fired up right away. I let it warm up, drove it around the block with no problems. My speedometer still dosen't work but at least it runs. Don't know if its the connector or sensor. I will check that out more at a later date.
Tomorrow I am going to take it a little farther around town with the girlfriend following just in case.
