Well I am determined to run a mid-high 12 on pump gas with stock turbo, stock injectors, cams, and intercooler. Mods are in my sig. I also plan on throwing in an sbr 3500 and 190 lph fuel pump.

My question is, will a hard licp and larger compressor elbow make any noticeable diff?

screwdgie said:

Well I am determined to run a mid-high 12 on pump gas with stock injectors, cams, and intercooler. Mods are in my sig. I also plan on throwing in an sbr 3500 and 190 lph fuel pump.

My question is, will a hard licp and larger compressor elbow make any noticeable diff?

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Anytime you upgrade your ICP you are going to see a difference. The life of our motor is air and fuel. If you upgrade your LICP and UICP to say...2.5" you will be increasing airflow. This will then give you an increase in spool up/power.

Well i've already got the uicp. I was looking at dejonpowerhouse.com, and their licp only fits the modded side mount ic. Who makes a licp to match the stock side mount?

logic performance is the only company i've seen who's got one that hooks to the stock IC. i've got it, but i havn't put it on yet. it looks like a real nice piece though. and it includes the compressor outlet elbow.

http://www.logicperformance.com/dat...=product_info&cPath=12_34_302&products_id=456

so there ya go man.

Oh sweet, thanks. Does that have the pressure fitting on the compressor elbow? Let me know what you think when you get it on!

doesn't have the fitting but if you're running an mbc like it should be you don't need it.

its a nice piece, i think honestly if you wanna keep the stock sidemount it's not a bad investment. espically for the price.

Just curious, how are you going to get the extra second taken off? This could be an interesting follow! Good Luck! Mark

staticbrainwash said:

doesn't have the fitting but if you're running an mbc like it should be you don't need it.

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If your running the mbc like it should be you don't need the fitting? What is the "proper" way, I hope your not t-ing into the bov?

sweet97 said:

Just curious, how are you going to get the extra second taken off? This could be an interesting follow! Good Luck! Mark

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If you take a look at his profile you will see that time was done with very limited mods & 15 psi. Your right though should be interesting to see the outcome

why wouldn't i t into the bov??

if you look in the tech articles on the "proper way too install a bov" youll see that the moderators said to tee into the bov line.

I installed my logic performance licp today. Spool up is quicker but didn't feel much with the butt-dyno, which also is because I installed an mbc at the same time to turn the boost down. But yes you should t into the BOV line for the mbc install.

I installed a Dejon LICP ,compressor elbo and a Dejon hard intake pipe and gained no power, I felt it was a waste of money, There are many better mods you could spend your money on. If I was you I would get a nice used AFC, or a nice AFPR, so you can run more fuel psi to your stock injectors, you will get more flow that way, much safer for your engine...I am on stock injectors and SMIC and LICP and I run from 12.3 to 12.6

Ok it sounds like I will hold off on the licp and elbow for a while. My car is in the shop today getting my evo3 o2, dp, and test pipe getting installed. Along with some broken manifold studs getting replaced. Got some bad news tho, it seems the exhaust housing on the turbo has a "big ass crack" in it . At least thats what they told me over at Devotuning. I am going to pick it up in a little while.

I am thinking that "crack" is what is causing my boost creep. So it looks like I may be upgrading the turbo....

I may hold off on the turbo till this summer until i can get more fuel action and a new clutch going on.

I still want to run a 12 on the stock turbo, i/c and injectors tho .

Cracks in the turbo housings are very common on our cars, most of the time it will not affect anything,if it goes all the way through to the outside of the housing, they shoulkd be able to weld it up, Also You will never have to replace your entire turbo over a crack, just buy a good used 7cm housing and bolt your turbo to it, It is very easy to unbolt your turbo from the cracked turbo housing. You have to watch these shops, even if you trust them, I learned the hrad way years ago before I started doing the work myself.

When I say buy a used 7cm turbo housing(this housing comes with the B16g) the stock 14b housing is 6cm. You should be able to find a used one for about $30 bucks, it will give you more top end power.

Ah i haven't thought about that But then i wouldnt have a true "stock" turbo. To me at least . I'll have to look into that. Doesnt sound too hard to do.

Well I got the car back. its so much smoother now. I had my evo 3 o2 installed, 2 3/4" dp installed, test pipe, and my 3" catback put back on. They also put in a new exhaust housing, replaced a broken turbo bolt, and 5, yes 5 broken manifold studs . The car runs so much smoother now, and spools a lot faster. Yet i get boost creep in 1st and 2nd gear. 3 and 4th seem to be fine. Any ideas? possible boost leak?

yeah, just boost leak test it. Otherwise maybe you've got too much flow in that o2 and dp. might be time for some turbine housing post work. or maybe just a nice post and bigger WG flapper.

staticbrainwash said:

why wouldn't i t into the bov??

if you look in the tech articles on the "proper way too install a bov" youll see that the moderators said to tee into the bov line.

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T-ing off the bov is not the proper way to install a mbc. The proper way is to tap into the ic pipes right after the turbo or in the comp housing. t-ing off the bov can give you poor boost control & boost spikes, not to mention it can kill weak or too small t25 turbo's. Do a search on the subject, you will find out otherwise

straight from a wiseman AND a moderator.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105573

thank you.

Bov line is where i did it and guess what. No spike, and it sits right at 13 psi ALL the time, and im even still on a stock 14b.

so no offense man, but i trust a wiseman and a moderator (not to mention the intsall instructions that came with my dejon MBC) over a few people in the forums who say to pull it from the comp housing elbow.

staticbrainwash said:

straight from a wiseman AND a moderator.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105573

thank you.

Bov line is where i did it and guess what. No spike, and it sits right at 13 psi ALL the time, and im even still on a stock 14b.

so no offense man, but i trust a wiseman and a moderator (not to mention the intsall instructions that came with my dejon MBC) over a few people in the forums who say to pull it from the comp housing elbow.

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Actually there have been lengthly discussions both on this website and others that would disagree. Maybe you don't have any problems as you are still on a small 14b and looks like stock smic? Personally I've used both locations and with it tapped off the bov the control was crap and from most posts Ive read that seems to be the general consensus, as many others have said the same thing. Are you having no spikes looking at your boost gauge or from a logger? Not to mention some bov will function funny where the bc is tied into it. Alot of turbos come with a pressure tap right on the comp housing, there is a reason for this. By t-ing into the bov you are so far downstream of the turbo that you have a lag in time of when it senses that something should be done & when it actually happens. But if it seems to work fine t-d into the bov with your current setup, then leave it there, I was just letting others know that this isn't the location of choice.

This moderator/ex. wiseman agrees with Daren 100%, tap your pressure source for your mbc from the compressor/j-pipe/licp, not from the BOV line. Here's what I posted yesterday on another thread.

Originally Posted by oldamn
Taking the pressure source from the j-pipe fitting has many benefits.

1. The main reason why alot of mbc instructions and some tech articles suggests to tap from the BOV line is because it's connected to the intake manifold, the argument is that this is more accurate because it's the same pressure the engine sees. In reality this is a non issue because the boost gauge is tap to the intake manifold no matter where you tap your mbc so there is no advantage in tapping the bov/manifold pressure as previously thought.

2. The proper functioning (opening and closing) of the bov depends greatly on the accuracy of the pressure in the vacuum hose you're thinking of tapping on or off boost so it's best to leave it connected directly to the manifold without any interference.

3. Tapping off the compressor/j-pipe offers the shortest vacuum hose route which greatly reduces the chance of boost spike.

4. In the case of boost leaks, tapping off the compressor/j-pipe will help prevent over boosting the turbo.

5. Hooking up a bleeder type mbc like the TurboXS standard mbc to the bov line will result in a vacuum leak as well as affect the working of the BOV.

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why would defiant, and many sites tell you to hook it up that way then? i guess it makes no sense to me. and im not now nor would i ever use a bleeder type mbc.

however, i see what you mean about not t-ing the bov-manny line. i guess my question is then, if i were to use that licp, there is no compressor elbow, it's all one piece. would i just tap a line in on the pipe near the comp housing. Or would i be alright to leave mine set-up the way it is. Because honestly, im going to be on a stock turbo and smic for a while, and if i've not been having a problem thus far. . . "if it aint broke, don't fix it" kind of applies.

unless it has some very ill effects. i dunno, im just confused i guess. why so many people would say one thing (espically tuners tech articles) and have that not be the best, and possibly even have problems as opposed to how you gus are running it. that should maybe be fixed somewhere.

I noticed a good difference in upgrading to 2.5" piping

staticbrainwash said:

why would defiant, and many sites tell you to hook it up that way then? i guess it makes no sense to me. and im not now nor would i ever use a bleeder type mbc.

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#1 specifically addresses that, what is it that doesn't make sense to you.

however, i see what you mean about not t-ing the bov-manny line. i guess my question is then, if i were to use that licp, there is no compressor elbow, it's all one piece. would i just tap a line in on the pipe near the comp housing. Or would i be alright to leave mine set-up the way it is. Because honestly, im going to be on a stock turbo and smic for a while, and if i've not been having a problem thus far. . . "if it aint broke, don't fix it" kind of applies.

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Just because you don't feel a problem doesn't mean it's not there, #2 explains exactly why. In this thread, the user accidentally discovered how a ball and spring type mbc can affect your BOV operations. With the mbc still connected, his BOV was opening during a pressure test because the wastegate pressure relief valve on a ball/spring mbc was bleeding pressure off the BOV line causing a slight pressure difference between the line and uicp, as soon as he pinch off the line to mbc the BOV sealed right off, this is probably happening every time you go WOT and there is no way of you knowing it.

unless it has some very ill effects. i dunno, im just confused i guess. why so many people would say one thing (espically tuners tech articles) and have that not be the best, and possibly even have problems as opposed to how you gus are running it. that should maybe be fixed somewhere.

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Besides the undetectable ill effects I cited above, let's talk about #4 and prevention. Let's prentend some how a serious boost leak has developed some where in your intake tract in which you don't know about yet, let's break down what will most likely happen in both cases.

1. Tapping off the BOV line: Since the wastegate actuator receives the pressure signal from the very end of the intake tract, it will not open until the entire intake tract reaches the original pressure setting on the mbc. What does this imply you ask? This means the turbo is now working overtime to fill the leak at the same time showing you the same 20 psi on your boost gauge which leads to turbo being out of its efficiency range, high intake charge air temperature, knock, timing retard, hitting fuel cut.......etc, not to mention some will continue to boost until the turbo finally gives up because of the same old saying "My turbo system is fine and no way I have leaks because I'm still hitting 20psi, must be a fuel delivery problem."

2. Tapping off the compressor : Since the pressure source is at the beginning of the intake tract, the effects of the leak is greatly reduced, the flapper opens earlier stopping the turbo from overboosting, Your boost gauge now reads 14psi instead of 20psi which mostly lead you right to a boost leak test.......mostly.

Which situation would you prefer?