what coiloves

[jayboost4g]

what would be a better choice to pick from , k sport, tein or megan . they are the only ones that come with pillow ball mount , and more then enough adjustability i believe and camber adjustment. which one is more capable in handling daily driving and track days. ive heard a lot about tien and k sport nothing of megan. ### only answer if u had experience using these parts and money is not the issue i want what is best for my car

 

[Scott McIntyre]

money is not the issue i want what is best for my car

If that's the case, do yourself a favor and read this page and the rest of the site: Autocross to Win (DGs Autocross Secrets) - Buying Shocks

Then consider duplicating this setup: Autocross.dsm.org - Build Your Own Konis

 

[snowborder714]

And no aftermarket coilover will provide camber adjustment on a 2g. You'll need to look into aftermarket camber kits for this.

 

[dieselsdad]

Consider some good OTS Konis and some GC coilover sleeves and springs. This will be a GREAT setup for your car. The Megan stuff is chinese pot metal.

 

[jayboost4g]

I took a look at those links they where very helpfull thanks. I plan on road racing the car this year according to the link the closet thing good enough for my car is tien . thier flex package is simialar to stance but they dont make anything for the second gen. every brand on that list is for evos. any body have any experience with teins? ps... i know the link speaks nothing of stance but everything on the list are at the top of the food chain then stance then tein. feel free to correct me. I just dont want to run suspension for drag ive dride several and most suspensions for the second gen are to stiff.

 

[snowborder714]

I have the Flex system on my 2g. It's been working great with no problems.

It'll be coming off soon to install the DG stuff.

 

[jayboost4g]

I seen that u are on the road course practicing how would describe their comfort on sharp turns bumpy road etc..... the adjustabillity in them and if any camber issues

 

[snowborder714]

They are somewhat stiff (560/340), but nothing horribly bad. On bumpy roads (i.e. almost all of PA) you do notice the stiffness, but they don't bounce at all. If you go over a bump, you feel it and the car settles very quickly. At first I thought they were stiff as hell, but I was also riding on shocks that were in horrible condition (one blown shock) when I first purchased the car. But after driving for a bit, I got used to it and all is good.

Around turns they're great. I have them coupled with the RM sway bars and I like how the car handles.

I have them set height/preload wise to what Tein recommends. The car came with some form of camber kit on the front and rear and I don't have any issues.

They do have dampening adjustments, which I have controlled by the EDFC. It's a small electronic box that allows you to adjust the dampening on the fly from inside the cabin. It's pretty nice, especially when you get on some crappy road you can change it to make the ride better.

 

[ACM]

If you want the best 2G setup available (to my knowledge), you should call Guy Ankeny for a set of his 2G Penske 8760s. As far as I'm aware, nobody has built anything better ( or as good) than these for a 2G.

A.R.E. - Intro

If you prefer Ohlins, I can get you started but you'll need an Ohlins shop for the actual build.

Charles

 

[snowborder714]

Charles, what would you estimate the cost of either of those setups to be out of curiosity?

Either way, my guess is money will become an issue for either of those two setups. They are true race setups and my guess is the OP doesn't want to go that hardcore. But I could be wrong...

 

[ACM]

Well, certainly not cheap ! But the OP said money was not an issue, he wanted the best, not the cheapest tolerable solution, which personally I feel describes any Koni Sport-based setup. I run a version of DG's Koni setup on my street car - it's OK, but it's not up to snuff for serious use. Shocktek's Bilstein-derived setup was at least an order of magnitude better than the Koni setup - and I have both setups, ran them on the same car so I can say that with complete confidence. Ankeny Penskes are an order of magnitude better than the Shockteks.

Konis are very good when you compare them to typical dampers - AGX. Illuminas for example, perhaps even Tein and JIC, but they pale into insignificance when compared to even a Shocktek Bilstein, never mind the higher end stuff.

I believe a triple adjustable Ohlins setup could be done for maybe $3-4k or so, depending on whether you get ripped off in the process... Just the dampers alone - no top hat, spring etc. I am referring to the pre-TTX Ohlins, the TTXs weren't out when I started down the Ohlins road. I don't know what a TTX-based setup would cost (presumably more). Penskes will be more than that of course, they're more complex/sophisticated than pre-TTX Ohlins. The (older) Ohlins are more suited road use, the Penskes are a little more fragile - their ability to survive repeated winter use, for example. Ohlins are regularly used on dirt bikes and the like and survive quite happily under the most obnoxious conditions.

Charles, what would you estimate the cost of either of those setups to be out of curiosity?

Either way, my guess is money will become an issue for either of those two setups. They are true race setups and my guess is the OP doesn't want to go that hardcore. But I could be wrong...

 

[snowborder714]

Oh, I wasn't arguing by any means that the Ohlins/Penske setup would be less of a setup. Just not sure the OP realizes that you have to pay to play and that most "good" parts for our cars are custom and very expensive. He sounded more like he wanted an OTS system ready to go.

That doesn't seem like a bad price for the quality parts you get. I was expecting more of an $7k+ quote, so what you said seems reasonable. Too bad I don't have the money or really the use for such a baller setup right now!

 

[ACM]

It all mounts up, but no, I doubt you would hit $7k. But you wouldn't run Ohlins/Penske if you have rubber shock bushing - that would be pointless, so the front bushings need to be spherical bearings, and so on. So if you don't have 90% of the supporting mods in place to begin with, those costs can add up very quickly. You can easily spend $1500 to outfit bare dampers appropriately.

One setup I would really like to see evaluated is the KW Variant 3. $2k for independent LSC and rebound is pretty good, although they don't come with top hats which adds significantly to the cost. Still...

 

[snowborder714]

I would like to see those evaluated as well. DG says they're crap, yet Drew has then and they seem to be working great for him. Kevin has also got them, as well as a couple other people on here. If they would test out to be a great setup, that would probably be my next step, as I would just have to redo the standoffs and machine a part or two (could reuse the upper hats from my DG Koni setup).

 

[ACM]

Well, everything's crap when it's forced onto DG's dyno - that's reality (I'm not being sarcastic - it's the damper equivalent of stripping PhotoShop out of cosmetics commercials). But there are degrees of crap - as I noted to Sam Strano after an Evolution School some years ago "Now I suck - less !".

If you stand by the dyno you can pretty much state that everything's crap unless it is a) Moton, Ohlins, Penske, White Power and a few others, and b) so long as it's built by company A, B, C, or D. Not all of us have $5-10K, so it would be nice if we knew which of the alternatives stink the least

 

[jayboost4g]

yeah moneys not an issue as far as how ima go with the car on the track ad how often , often but not enough to spend 4k. this is allso my DD street car ill spend the most 2k on a set up that i wont have o go threw hell to get. i had a full race car with roll cage and all and jst swaped everything into a mint shell full interior. so im detuning from a 600 hp build to a 30 r setup wit 450 hp whic i think i could have done with a t28 but whatever lets se how this setup goes. once i get my coilovers i want to go wider tires just need to know how wide i can go .

 

[ACM]

Then define your budget, You said money's no option - apparently it actually is.

What is you suspension budget ? Total, not shocks, not springs, not adjustable arms, not bushings - what is you suspension budget ?

Don't tell us it's unlimited when it isn't...

Not being nasty, just that you need to tell us what your budjet is - hard $$$ - otherwise you get...well, what you just got.

There are numerous people out there willing to spend $10k to extract the maximum from their tyre's potential (which is what suspension is all about). If that is not your goal then you need to clearly identify your limitations.

Not being snotty, I'm just trying to quantify the terrain we're operating in.

Charles

yeah moneys not an issue as far as how ima go with the car on the track ad how often , often but not enough to spend 4k. this is allso my DD street car ill spend the most 2k on a set up that i wont have o go threw hell to get. i had a full race car with roll cage and all and jst swaped everything into a mint shell full interior. so im detuning from a 600 hp build to a 30 r setup wit 450 hp whic i think i could have done with a t28 but whatever lets se how this setup goes. once i get my coilovers i want to go wider tires just need to know how wide i can go .

OK, you don't want to spend more than...$4k ? So you want crap - the best crap available, but crap...

Build DG's upper and lower mounts - because there's nothing better. Then throw whatever shite tickles your fancy in there. Doesn't really matter what brand you pick - at that price point, they're all crap.

I don't know whether RRE's custom JICs would meet your budget - but if you can stretch that far my guess is they're as good as you can hope for for the $ you're willing to spend. Don't have personal experience of them, but I'm sure RRE did their homework.

$4k is PEANUTS for suspension,

Charles

 

[jayboost4g]

na its cool u being up front im kinda happy you gave me those links cause it made me think how far truthflly am i gona take it on the trak with this car pluss i learned alot . im only dont the street class on the road course i have to have street tires so i have street simi slicks the re01. at one point i felt like i couldnt get any thing for my car . yeah my max u can say is 2000 on coilovers which most ppl think is tomuch i dont care. when i said money is not a problem i was completley thinking that 2000 was the most you can spend as from what i see fromvendors 2500 from accurate technologies and ive never heard of them pluss there is no vendor listed from them they are special order and thats the most expensive off the shelf coilovers anything more expensive they dont make . now getting custom work done is another story shit i didnt even know i can go about it that way but for future refrence i will keep your teachings in mind cause ths will not be my last project let alone this is my 4th dsm project each car bigger set up . next one will not be a daily driver .

with in the past 4 years ive had 4 dsm and about 7 suspension stups and 4 turbo set ups . imagine how much i spent but suspension has always been a big issue to me ive had a sevral and havent really been happy with any . main issue i had was my allignment would never last the front will always feel like its digging into the floor and slowing the car down second gen to be spacific my first gens never gave me a problem . my camber is rediculoussssssssss


anyways lets not let this drag my questions have pretty much ben answered guys im more confident now about what i may choose for my caer now that im aware of my options thanks for all your input.

 

[snowborder714]

I believe I called that one Charles

I agree with him though that the DG setup will probably be the best you can build for around $2k. I am in the process of having this setup built and with everything it will probably be just shy of $2k. This includes all necessary parts, machine work, coatings, etc. I have put more than that into my suspension though as I have a set of SPC upper control arms (now discontinued) and RM sway bars. I'm also in the process of making adjustable sway bar end links and have either the Prothane bushing kit on metal spacers on my list. So the shock/spring setup is not the only thing that needs to be considered.

If you want to get the DG setup done, you can use the link Scott posted above to find out almost everything you need. DG was even nice enough to post all of the technical drawings, so all you have to do is print them out and bring them to any machine shop and they should be able to do it for you. Nothing hard on your part other than making sure they understand what all needs to be done. Then you just buy the rest of the parts and assemble.

And if you're having issues with the front digging, you really need to look at that. To correct your camber, you'll need a kit in each corner, more specifically in the front (rear you can do with longer bolts and washers). A good alignment is key to a good suspension setup. You can have the best setup in the world, but if your alignment's off, your car will handle like crap.

 

[Ludachris]

For $2k, I would consider the DG setup... or maybe a Hotbits coilover or a Muellerized JIC coilover, probably in that order. If you want something really good, step out of the Tein, Megan, K-sport realm. Those are the most popular because of the price (they're cheap coilovers) and because most people who buy them only drive their car on the street. If you want something that is meant for the track and is a true performance setup, buy something better.

 

[T2Small]

Any thoughts about how the lower end Penskes compare the 8760? I can get some lower end ones rebuilt for adjustable rebound and compression locally. Are they *so* much better that I'd really notice over fresh matched Koni Yellows?

 

[ACM]

Go to www.penskeshocks.com/ Welcome Page, figure out which shocks you have access to and let us know. IIRC, the only difference between each level of Penske is the reservoir, so all "lesser" versions are relatively easily (but not cheaply) upgraded. If that holds true for the ones you have access to, I believe you'll be stunned at the improvement over Konis.

Be careful who rebuilds them though - just switching to a different brand of shock oil can dramatically change their damping characteristics. I went through this when a local idiot decided to use Amsoil shock oil instead of the Penske oil they were valved for, that he drained out of them. After weeks of frustration I sent the shocks to the original builder on the opposite coast - convenience was why I gave them to the local yokel - who rebuilt them and sent them back. Aside from breaking several tools trying to open them (apparently the local yokel also hand a gorilla on staff), he said the only thing he did was drain the Amsoil and flush/refill with the Penske fluid he originally used.. Net result was the setup was back performing stunningly. That was a grand really well spent...

Interestingly, the local idiot dyno'd the shocks before and afterward, and there was no difference between the traces. Did he really dyno them twice, or just print the charts twice ? Dunno, the plot IDs and timestamps were different.

Charles