I need suspension suggestions

[wilddog]

After reading reviews and pages upon pages of threads and articles on suspensions for the last week, I'm still stuck.
I'm looking to get more involved in tracking my 2g and I know my kyb agx's aren't going to cut it. I was looking at MR or ksport coilovers or a koni/spring combination. I don't have alot of money to blow, but I would like something effective as a dd and track suspension. What do you guys recommend?

Thanks

 

[ACM]

What tyres/brakes do you intend to use ?

The G loads your setup is capable of generating have a large effect on your spring rates, and the spring rates you end up with reduce the range of dampers to choose from.

 

[wilddog]

Right now I am running Fuzion ZRi tires with stock brakes.

 

[tsiboosted]

wilddog - Not sure why you don't think your KYB's would cut it. I have been running my AGX's for over 3 years on my car and have no issues at all with them. Now true I do not DD my car at all, but they do just fine on the track. You could always do the tried and proven combo of Koni yellows and the Ground Control coilover kit. Everyone seems to like that setup.

Depending how aggressive you want to go with the spring rates depends on what kind of ride you can put up with on the road away from the track. Something around 350 lbs (front) and 225 - 275 lbs (rear) woudln't be too awful of a ride I would think. Even if you didnt like that combination, the springs are easy enough to find on mosr boards classified sections. That way, you can find a package that you like. Good luck

 

[Dsmj89]

For DD i have a friend who has a 97 tsi awd (chicken_patty) on this thread, and he runs tokico illuminas with gc springs and its a pretty stiff ride, i think its streetable yet track-ready.

 

[gpz750]

I would say to stay away from the ksports if you are going to use it for a dd. They will sale you the 12/7 rates, and they are way too stiff. I tried the 10/5 rates and that still had me wanting to have my kidneys removed. I switched to the tokico illuminas and like them alot. It all has to do with how much track time the car will see and how rough of a ride you are willing to put up with.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

Some Koni/Ground Controls work awesome. As for spring rates, I used 650's in the front and 450's in the rear. Worked great for auto-X and high speed track days and still didnt kill the back, (too much anyways).

 

[tsiboosted]

Some Koni/Ground Controls work awesome. As for spring rates, I used 650's in the front and 450's in the rear. Worked great for auto-X and high speed track days and still didnt kill the back, (too much anyways).

Thats what I run as well (spring rates I mean). But its like I and others said, its all up to what he can tolerate driving it as a DD as well.

 

[wilddog]

wilddog - Not sure why you don't think your KYB's would cut it. I have been running my AGX's for over 3 years on my car and have no issues at all with them.

Are you happy with them? I've read nothing but negative reviews on the AGX's for track use.

I would say to stay away from the ksports if you are going to use it for a dd. They will sale you the 12/7 rates, and they are way too stiff. I tried the 10/5 rates and that still had me wanting to have my kidneys removed.

I've read that alot of people say the ksports are more comfortable than the Megan's. I really like these because they are a full coilover system for a good price. I like the adjustability of them compared to strut/spring combos. I would get these but alot of people say they used to be poor quality. Whereas Koni's can last a world war.

Some Koni/Ground Controls work awesome. As for spring rates, I used 650's in the front and 450's in the rear. Worked great for auto-X and high speed track days and still didnt kill the back, (too much anyways).

How are those spring rates on the street? I would think that's pretty harsh for a DD?

 

[tsiboosted]

I am very pleased with them actually. But yo have realize in my situation, I do not drive the car everyday on the street. But as far as track performance goes, I have had never had any issues with the struts and have been very pleased with them.

Im sure if you looked hard enough, every strut you look into would have bad reviews. But like I said, I have been 100% happy with them since they have been on the car.

 

[gsx roadracer]

I have ran the Illuminas on my car for several years and been very happy with them for mainly a track only car. I am using similar spring rates to those mentioned above, just a tad bit heavier on the front springs.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

650/450 combo is not really that bad for the street. I even had a full race seat in the car offering little to no cushion.

However, take advantage of having coilovers. If the 650/450 setup is just too stiff for you, go buy some softer springs and sell yours with minimal money loss.

 

[pneumo]

wilddog - Not sure why you don't think your KYB's would cut it. I have been running my AGX's for over 3 years on my car and have no issues at all with them. Now true I do not DD my car at all, but they do just fine on the track. You could always do the tried and proven combo of Koni yellows and the Ground Control coilover kit. Everyone seems to like that setup.

Depending how aggressive you want to go with the spring rates depends on what kind of ride you can put up with on the road away from the track. Something around 350 lbs (front) and 225 - 275 lbs (rear) woudln't be too awful of a ride I would think. Even if you didnt like that combination, the springs are easy enough to find on mosr boards classified sections. That way, you can find a package that you like. Good luck

tsiboosted, who,what where are the 'mosr boards'?

 

[tsiboosted]

tsiboosted, who,what where are the 'mosr boards'?

Sorry....That was a typo. I meant to say Most boards. I have gotten springs off hondatech and other import car boards for good deals. And as Andy said, you can always sell your to buy more for minimal money loss until you find the combination you like.

With going with heavier springs, regardless of what anyone of us suggests to you, the choice is going to be yours on how stiff you want to go and what kind of ride you can tolerate. What one person thinks is an "ok" ride, someone else may think it rides like a covered wagon.

 

[talonTSIDriver]

If you want to get away with the softest spring possible, get some stiff sway bars first. Check into the Whiteline Sway bars if they make them. Also I would recommend some HyperCoil springs, they are the only ones proven not to sag after time or use. There is no perfect suspension setup, its all about trial and error until you find the setup that suites your driving style and liking. It cant get to be very tedious as well as expensive.

 

[tsiboosted]

It cant get to be very tedious.....

VERY, VERY tedious WTF

 

[wilddog]

I have no qualms with a stiff suspension, although I think I'll go with the spring rate combo as you TalonTSIDriver. I just need recommendations on brands for struts/springs and coilovers. I don't want to get someting poor in quality but I also don't want to break bank. Also am I better off going with coilovers in terms of adjustability?

 

[talonTSIDriver]

I have no qualms with a stiff suspension, although I think I'll go with the spring rate combo as you TalonTSIDriver. I just need recommendations on brands for struts/springs and coilovers. I don't want to get someting poor in quality but I also don't want to break bank. Also am I better off going with coilovers in terms of adjustability?

Coilovers being adjustable can be both good and bad. If not setup properly, you could be taking a step backwards and worsen your handling.

Look into having your car corner-weighted after installing your coilovers. I won't get into to much about this, but for some more info, go here.

After that, find an alignment shop that is highly recommended in your area and will do a good job. Most quick alignment shops will just get your toe dialed in, and send you on your way.

Suspension is just like an engine, it requires lots of fine tuning. After you get your alignment and coilovers setup, go take it to the track and see how you like it. I'm sure you may not be 100% satisfied right away, but you'll find ways to adjust certain things to help the car rotate like you want and accelerate out of corners and such.

Good luck, and welcome to racing!

 

[everbruin]

i advise koni sport (<$600 for 4) and gc w/ 600/400 lb 7" springs ($400 from gc).
i've tracked/autox/rallyx/dd'ed this setup; for the money i doubt there's better.
and if you have stock sways, upgrade em first. cheaper

 

[drivemusicnow]

I don't have time to get into too much detail right now, but you're missing some big design requirements


A) you're in canada which means winter, salt, corrosion, etc. the aluminum struts on the megan/ksport/d2/whatever other name they slap on those same exact coilovers are going to corrode. This is an issue depending on how much street time the car sees.

B) Spring stiffness is less related to ride shittiness than the low speed damping force of the shock.

C) 2gs like to be heavily sprung in front. several of the guys run 700+ lbs/in springs up front and love it. the rear, should be significantly less.

D) you're probably fine, and the fact that you say "arent going to cut it" means that you haven't been on track with your current setup. GO. It's your driving that will make you slow, not your car. So stop spending money on parts and get on track. When you have a characteristic about your car that you don't like, then come back and we'll talk about how to fix it.

Oh, and Eddie, AGX's are crap. Get some real man dampers. Aren't some ohlins in the racing budget this year

 

[tsiboosted]

Oh, and Eddie, AGX's are crap. Get some real man dampers. Aren't some ohlins in the racing budget this year

....They seem to work very well for me thank you very much

I wish some Ohlins were in the budget and they might have been if I had not killed the tranny last month. Stage 3 from TRE didnt come cheap so that chopped allot out of the budget. People/Companies are allot less tempted to put money into a race program with the "economy" the way it is. Last year I had some private backers who did not come on board this season. So my Wachovia card has been getting a work out this season. But we'll see what happens on the suspension in the future.

 

[wilddog]

I don't have time to get into too much detail right now, but you're missing some big design requirements


A) you're in canada which means winter, salt, corrosion, etc. the aluminum struts on the megan/ksport/d2/whatever other name they slap on those same exact coilovers are going to corrode. This is an issue depending on how much street time the car sees.
D) you're probably fine, and the fact that you say "arent going to cut it" means that you haven't been on track with your current setup. GO. It's your driving that will make you slow, not your car. So stop spending money on parts and get on track. When you have a characteristic about your car that you don't like, then come back and we'll talk about how to fix it.

Its a summer car, I have my winter beater.
I was tracking my c5 corvette last season until I got rid of it so Im familiar with a good suspension, at least in my opinion. But it would be a fallacy to think that the agx/eibach prokit combo that I currently have will be satisfying. Regardless, my front right shock is blown. So I would rather spend the money on a better suspension all around than buy a pair of new fronts.
Are you still running Ksports? What is your opinion of them?

 

[drivemusicnow]

Its a summer car, I have my winter beater.
I was tracking my c5 corvette last season until I got rid of it so Im familiar with a good suspension, at least in my opinion. But it would be a fallacy to think that the agx/eibach prokit combo that I currently have will be satisfying. Regardless, my front right shock is blown. So I would rather spend the money on a better suspension all around than buy a pair of new fronts.
Are you still running Ksports? What is your opinion of them?

Looks like I underestimated a little bit.

Yes, I'm still running the ksports. They work. In fact, I've gotten them to work pretty decently. Couple of tips if you go with crapalasia suspension like I did, Since they are cheap, you can afford to get some shock dyno time on them. Focus on low speed compression and rebound. This is the part that you want to match for a car than handles well. If you can't get the front two and rear two to be similar (not exactly the same, but ball park) send them back and get new ones. The shiny knob is not to be touched once you get them halfway close to each other. High speed compression and rebound will never match. period. And not only will it not match, it will be terribly far off from the ideal.

How does this translate? You can get them to be somewhat decent for all of your "normal" track situations. Unless you race on an somewhat bumpy track. Then you're effed. the high speed compression forces will be through the roof, and the car will be unsettled over bumps. Unsettled seems a bit tame. If you hit a decent sized bump at speed, your car could be sideways before you have a chance to blink.

Sooo, there's your trade off. cheap and handles decently for a moderate chance you'll be scraping your car off the wall if you hit a bump at speed. To fix that slight issue you're spending 2-3 times as much and 2 times the effort.

Then again, if you don't put the dyno time in, all of this is moot anyway. FYI the Ksports are sprung much better for 1gs off the shelf, versus the megans or d2s. From what i've heard though, the megans are closer for 2gs. I would recommend stockpiling some hc springs for testing anyway.

My personal opinion would be to slap on some 17x9s and with some r comps and see what you dislike about the current suspension.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Ohhhh, and as far as "adjustability" goes..

the crapalasia style coilovers have ONE benefit over a koni/gc setup. and that's the fact that you can adjust ride height without changing the spring pretension. But don't kid yourself, the dampers, once matched, should be left completely alone (spinning it one way and then back to the same "click" is not leaving them alone and will not be the same) and once they're on the car you're never going to be changing the ride height because you'd have to get an alignment every time.

 

[wilddog]

Looks like I underestimated a little bit.

Yes, I'm still running the ksports. They work. In fact, I've gotten them to work pretty decently. Couple of tips if you go with crapalasia suspension like I did, Since they are cheap, you can afford to get some shock dyno time on them. Focus on low speed compression and rebound. This is the part that you want to match for a car than handles well. If you can't get the front two and rear two to be similar (not exactly the same, but ball park) send them back and get new ones. The shiny knob is not to be touched once you get them halfway close to each other. High speed compression and rebound will never match. period. And not only will it not match, it will be terribly far off from the ideal.

How does this translate? You can get them to be somewhat decent for all of your "normal" track situations. Unless you race on an somewhat bumpy track. Then you're effed. the high speed compression forces will be through the roof, and the car will be unsettled over bumps. Unsettled seems a bit tame. If you hit a decent sized bump at speed, your car could be sideways before you have a chance to blink.

Sooo, there's your trade off. cheap and handles decently for a moderate chance you'll be scraping your car off the wall if you hit a bump at speed. To fix that slight issue you're spending 2-3 times as much and 2 times the effort.

Then again, if you don't put the dyno time in, all of this is moot anyway. FYI the Ksports are sprung much better for 1gs off the shelf, versus the megans or d2s. From what i've heard though, the megans are closer for 2gs. I would recommend stockpiling some hc springs for testing anyway.

My personal opinion would be to slap on some 17x9s and with some r comps and see what you dislike about the current suspension.

This is exactly what I needed to know. I wanted to stay away from dyno running the suspension and just slap something in and get an alignment, but from what I've read and from your experience these affordable coilovers really require it. I'll be going with the koni/gc as so many others do.
Thank you good sir