1G Oil temps on the track?

[Ludachris]

I just put a gauge in to monitor oil temps. How high should temps go before I slow down and let it cool off?

 

[cioc]

I've heard that 280 is when bearings start to break down. So to be on the safe side I'd say 250. I've never seen anything higher than 205.

 

[wortdog]

Regular oil will hold on moderately well until about 265 to 280, normal synthetics do pretty well on past 300F. High end turbine oil will be just fine past 500F

Modern air cooled Ducatis have a High Oil Temp warning light that comes on at 338F, and are fine to run conventional oil in. WTF

Basically, I'd try to keep it under 300 running a full synthetic. You'll have far more problems keeping the water temps down at that point though. OTOH, Motor oil tends to be happiest around 200-220F, and if you have that much oil cooling it will help keep water temps down.

 

[Eagle 5]

Where do you guys have your oil temp gauge tapped? I've heard a few say to put it in the oil pan below one of the returns but not sure if that would be the best place or not.

 

[Ludachris]

I'm running mine where the old turbo oil feed line used to be in the oil filter housing. The ideal location would likely be in the pan though.

 

[Elvenhome21]

230-250 is optimal temp anything higher than 260 and you run into oil not lasting very long. But also anything under 220 the oil is to thick so you are also losing power.

 

[DSMunknown]

Chris, I don't want to high-jack your thread, but I had a question that branches of the subject a little. For daily drivers that visit the road courses on occasion, what's the proper etiquette for oil changes under these types of circumstances? I would only have to assume that brand-spankin'-new fully synthetic oil would be changed in before the race/event, and then the oil is most likely changed immediately after the race/event is over. Are my assumptions correct?

 

[drivemusicnow]

I don't like to see anything over about 250-260* either. I'm not sure what the stock oil thermostat is set at. (for the air-oil oil filter housings)

As for oil changes, if you daily drive the car as well, you could probably get away with changing it before the track event, and then leaving that oil in. With a decent/good filter, you shouldn't really have a problem.

Obviously changing it both before and after is better, but it's not neccesary, and not everyone has the cash to spend on that much oil. I just always make sure it has new clean oil before it runs on track.

 

[DSMunknown]

As for oil changes, if you daily drive the car as well, you could probably get away with changing it before the track event, and then leaving that oil in. With a decent/good filter, you shouldn't really have a problem.

Obviously changing it both before and after is better, but it's not neccesary, and not everyone has the cash to spend on that much oil. I just always make sure it has new clean oil before it runs on track.

Hmmm. I would think that the properties of "ordinary" fully synthetic motor oil (because of being put through severe circumstances) would break down easier and sooner, thus making the oil change imperative both before and after.

I suppose it's one of those "It depends" question and answers.

 

[Elvenhome21]

I change before and after BUT, I run full synthetic for DD and switch to kendall gt1 for racing (cheap and excelent for racing). then after a couple days after the racing event I change back to synthetic.

I know that may sound weird but I have had great luck with the kendall in all of my race cars. At $30 for a case of 12 quarts kendall versus $30 for 5 quarts of synthetic its a cheap alternative then keeping any baked oil in after the races.

 

[cioc]

My car runs extremely rich...11.0:1 on the wideband. I used to change my oil before track days and then drive on the street a bit before changing. I ended up diluting my oil with fuel which is a very bad thing. Bearings don't like fuel too much and as such they wore prematurely both in the engine and turbo. I now change before and after. Oil is expensive but much cheaper than a turbo rebuild and less time consuming than an engine teardown.

 

[tsunari]

I just put a gauge in to monitor oil temps. How high should temps go before I slow down and let it cool off?

I believe I have my warning set at 107C (225F) but have never seen anything above 103C (217F) as of yet . . . this was on Road Atlanta two weeks ago.

 

[tsunari]

Chris, I don't want to high-jack your thread, but I had a question that branches of the subject a little. For daily drivers that visit the road courses on occasion, what's the proper etiquette for oil changes under these types of circumstances? I would only have to assume that brand-spankin'-new fully synthetic oil would be changed in before the race/event, and then the oil is most likely changed immediately after the race/event is over. Are my assumptions correct?

This is what I personally do . . . although if I just did a change within the past 1k miles or so . . .I wont bother doing one before the event (if it's not a race). But definitely do change it after the event.

 

[Defiant]

Even in racing, oil and water are going to run near the same temperature in a healthy engine. Despite all the noise and stink, what we call "racing" still isn't much stress on oil. If you head off to LeMans, other considerations would be in order.

 

[tsunari]

Didn't have my #'s with me earlier in the week . . . but here is to summarize both coolant and oil temps from the research I've done -- Hope it helps:


Oil Temps
------------
200F | 93C OK (Street Use)
212F | 100C Water Vaporizes
220F | 104C Max HP (Race) ***Ideal Temp***
225F | 107C ***Warning***
235F | 113C Would start to worry
240F | 115C Oil Breakdown Begins
260F | 127C Accelerated Oil Breakdown



Coolant Temps (2g)
-----------------
170F | 77C ECU Enters Learn Mode
190F | 88C ***Ideal Temp (180-190F)***
200F | 93C Radiator Fan ON
206F | 97C ECU Pulls 1* of timing (-1* total)
224F | 107C ECU Pulls 1* of timing (-2* total)
228F | 109C ECU enters Open Loop Mode
240F | 115C ECU forces A/C shutdown (Both fans on)

 

[nightspeed87]

I currently have a forward facing oil filter housing and it didnt come with a oil cooler configuration which I didnt care to much since the stock water/oil cooler lines I cut and welded shut... I wouldnt mind having an external oil cooler though like i used to have on my gst but the only problem with the ff oil filter housing it didnt even have the oil idiot light which i prefer having because I had oil leak out of a car before and the light came on and I shut the car down in time not to do any damage, but since this car doesnt have that makes me very annal about checking my oil level very very often...
Anyways, I run 15w50 full synthetic mobil1 right now, want to go up to 20w.50 full synthetic next, i am a strong believer in thicker oil being better on a turbo car especially one without a oil cooler considering oil breaks down anyways, and my awd 1g has a bit of blow by ( over 100k on block now ) and was hopeing thicker oil also helped with leakdown in which ever since i went to the thicker oil, coming from 10w30 synthetic, it actually has burned less oil then it previously was burning. (I live in hot FL, and dont have to change oil weights seasonally coldest we get were I live is low 40s in winter.)

I plan on doing a lot of autocross, and was wondering would I not get the oil temp too hot
due to not having a oil cooler at all on the car.... Btw I change my oil every 2500 miles.
Should I change it sooner than that?

 

[mavisky]

I've currently got a 270 degree warning light setup on my car for the oil.

 

[Ludachris]

At this last event I was seeing 250 degree oil temps on the high end. It generally stuck around 240 most of the time.

 

[nightspeed87]

At this last event I was seeing 250 degree oil temps on the high end. It generally stuck around 240 most of the time.

with or without a oil cooler.

And what are your thought on a good oil to use with a lot of autocross/ racing...
Does Mobil1 20w50 full synthetic sound like it will do.?

 

[Ludachris]

with or without a oil cooler.

And what are your thought on a good oil to use with a lot of autocross/ racing...
Does Mobil1 20w50 full synthetic sound like it will do.?

With.
I use 10w-30 Mobile 1, but my engine is pretty new. I used to use 20-50 in my old motor.

 

[biglady112]

Chris. We all have had tremendous luck using conventional 10w40 here in colorado. I use nothing but valvoline in my cars. Other than the shattered piston and forcing the car to start with warm bearings(lots of cranking but no starting) I have never seen any signs of wear on all of our motors. Even when my friend broke his crank the bearings were in phenominal shape. This was with a dump similar to yours. Actually right above the filter blowing on it rather than near it blowing below it. His 14x,xxx mile 7 bolt saw tons of abuse and the bearings looked awesome. Oil changes up until the last 3000-4000 miles were always at 1800-2000 mile intervals with changes after each track or dyno session. Towards the end he kinda let things go a little as money was tight and he was down on his luck and a little depressed.

Steven

 

[nightspeed87]

With.
I use 10w-30 Mobile 1, but my engine is pretty new. I used to use 20-50 in my old motor.

In your old motor did you have any blow by, if so did running the 20-50 help
with the blow by any>? Because my motor has a little blow by and burn like a quart of oil every month, but I cant tell if it still has the blow by even though it seems oil consumption has dropped.

 

[Ludachris]

In your old motor did you have any blow by, if so did running the 20-50 help
with the blow by any>? Because my motor has a little blow by and burn like a quart of oil every month, but I cant tell if it still has the blow by even though it seems oil consumption has dropped.

Yeah the 20-50 helped a little.

 

[wishihadatalon]

With.
I use 10w-30 Mobile 1, but my engine is pretty new. I used to use 20-50 in my old motor.

You might want to use a thicker oil

Here is a quote from a local board

"What oil do you use?"
"Mobil 1 5W30."

Every time I hear that, I cringe. I mean, if my mom were to say that she used Mobil 1 5W-30, it would be OK... but when I hear that Little Billy Woodward Racer is using that same oil in his super-turbocharged whatchmacallit, I feel sorry for his bearings and journals.

Why?

Well, as far as 5W30 oils go, Mobil 1 is one of the thinnest. Maybe not at first, but it will thin out quickly. Yes, thin oil flows better... but under hard conditions, you don't want the most flow you can get... you want PRESSURE. Pressure is the resistance to flow. Am I saying that you should run the thickest oil available? No. What I *am* saying is that you want an oil that will remain thick enough to keep oil pressure up, even when the oil is at its hottest. When oil gets hot, it gets thinner... if it gets too thin, you lose oil pressure... when you lose oil pressure, you can spin bearings. This is why hardcore track racers use oils like 15W50... when you beat on your car for hours on end, the last thing you need is to lose oil pressure.

But my car starts easier with Mobil 1 !

Yes, I can see why some people would say this... oil gets thicker when it is cold. At cold temps, thin Mobil 1 5W30 will still flow without a problem. This is the reason that multi-viscosity oils were invented. 5W30 flows like a 5 weight oil when it's cold, and behaves like a 30 weight oil when it's hot. You want an oil that flows well when it's cold, so that your oil pump can do its job right after a cold start.

But... but... my oil cap says...

Yeah, screw your oil cap (pun!). Look in your owner's manual. The manufacturer of your car probably recommends thicker oils if you're using the car under "severe conditions". Simply put: racing = "severe conditions"... HOT = "severe conditions".

So, why does my oil cap say 5W30?

Mileage. That's pretty much it. Thinner oils are good enough for cars that run at reasonable temperatures, under reasonable conditions. My friend runs 0W20 in his newer commuter Honda that he *never* beats on. Why? It's thick enough for his needs, and it gives him a little extra boost in gas mileage. However, if he were to race his car, he would be stupid to keep the 0W20 in there.

So what oil should I use?

OK, here's the funny part. Not all 5W-30 oils are created equal. In order for an oil to be a "5W30" its viscosity has to fall within a range of values. Mobil 1 5W30 just happens to end up at the thin end of that range after some time in your motor, thanks to shearing. It may even shear down to a 20 weight.

The next time you're at the local auto parts store, look on the back of a bottle of motor oil. If it says "energy conserving", then it's likely thinner than another oil of the same viscosity that doesn't say "energy conserving". For example, very few of the oils from Redline or Amsoil are going to be rated as energy conserving oils, but they are excellent oils, providing very good protection. The hard-to-find German Castrol 0W30 is a very good oil. It is almost thick enough to be rated as 40 weight when hot, and it is nice and thin when it's cold to provide good protection on startup.

Take some time to look at the viscosity ratings from VOA (virgin oil analysis) and UOA (used oil analysis) reports. Look for trends... see which oils are breaking down.

 

[mavisky]

That's why I run Mobil 1 15w-50 full synthetic. You can get it pretty cheap at Wal-Mart in the 5 quart jug.