Passing in TT

[Slow old poop]

As is my wont, I have them all stirred up on the NASA Forum. I brought up the subject of passing, and got reamed, ripped and ridiculed when I suggested that people are actually RACING in TT class! Horrors!

So I thought I would bring the discussion over here, where cooler heads prevail.

It is my understanding that we are supposed to use TT as preparation for race groups. In TT, open passing is permitted everywhere on the track, even in corners. We are instructed in the TT download sessions to (a) don't give up your line (b) make passing cars go off line and (c) don't point a car by unless you have a problem. As HPDEers know, this is the complete opposite of HPDE, where you are encouraged to let faster cars by. Yet, participants in the TT forum say that TT is just another HPDE.

NASA is saying: If a car is faster, then they will find a way to get around you. It's all because TT is supposed to be teaching you how to RACE. In fact, when I asked for advice on the proper way to graduate into a race group, NASA officials suggested that I should spend more time in TT learning how to pass in traffic.

I know all about the proper strategy for winning in TT: Go out for a few laps to warm up the tires and brakes, have your crew radio you when a clear track is ahead, and set a fast lap with no traffic around to slow you down. If you get into traffic, pull through the pits to let them get ahead. If you are in traffic and catch up to a slower car, can't just blow by, and have to follow him through a corner slowly, then you've blown the lap and won't set a fast time, so just cool it. I know all that. My problem is in the passing itself.

I've been in situations where cars running on Hoosiers would catch me up in corners, but I would blow them away on the straights. Am I supposed to let such a car by? Some of the NASA TTers call this blocking, but the fact remains that I usually have a faster lap time than the better-handling car.

I've been in situations where the traffic was three wide down a short straight. I passed and got passed. The NASA TTers say I should have avoided passing in such a situation, because I can't set a fast lap there. Well, I say that I can clear the traffic just as easily by passing it as I can by ducking into the pits.

The NASA TTers want me to give up a lap instead of taking a pass if it's a little dicey. At Road America, with its three-minute laps, that's asking a lot. You don't get that many laps at RA in a 20-minute session. I passed two cars under braking going into 5 at Road America because I could, and because I didn't want to lose a hot lap. They say I should have tucked in behind the second car instead of passing him side by side in the corner.

So, on the one hand the NASA officials are telling me to use TT to learn how to pass and don't give up the line, but the TT forum participants are telling me that such tactics are not appropriate for TT, where "gentlemen racers" are just out having a good time in their street-driven, non-race cars that have no roll bars.

What do you experienced racers think about all this? Am I wrong to use TT to learn how to pass? Should I jump up into Production Touring and leave the gentlemen racers behind to have a jolly good time?

Rich

 

[drivemusicnow]

I'm a bit out of my element here, but I would say that as long as there isn't any contact, You can pass however you'd like. It's MEANT to be a true time trial, fastest car around the course wins, however everyone knows that this just isn't true. Nasa-TT is almost like qualifying in real racing. You have to deal with traffic, you have to try and put down your best lap time etc.

I'd say stick it out in TT to see how competitive you'd be and finish sorting out the car. Go into PT when you know that the car is built well enough, fast enough, and safe enough to do so. I doubt any of the other TTers were telling you that as soon as you come up on traffic your lap is blown and you might as well just wait until the next one to push it. If you can pass cleanly, do it! If it is going to slow you way down to complete the pass, than don't chance it, but make sure you're ahead of him going into the next lap.

 

[mavisky]

I liken nasa's TT program to Formula 1 qualifying. You're out there to set one blazing fast lap and that's it. Sometimes there's traffic and if you have to make a pass to set that blazing fast laptime then so be it.

 

[Greg Collier]

The problem is that all the Mid-West boys are pan zees and afraid of their own shadow let alone an Blue Smurf streaking by them on a turn at the speed of light!

JUST KIDDING!!!!

Rich, you need to run your own race. Be aggressive and be smart. If you feel that you’re making an unsafe pass then hang back. If the crybaby in front of you is unsure of his line or what he should be doing when a faster car has two wheels by his front door (he’s suppose to give you the line according to the CCR) then he needs to spend more time on the track getting comfortable.

Hell everyone had to do the HPDE 1-3 before he can get into 4. Maybe he should have stayed in 3 until he’s not quite so afraid. The TT drivers have surpassed the HPDE 4 and are now in qualifying heats. I drive a very aggressive qualifying heat before each race. If I have a badass twin turbo Rolex Series Porsche driven by Boris Said on my ass I let him pass when it’s convenient for me. He’ll still probably have to go off line to make his maneuver around me if it’s on the apex of a turn, but I’ll definitely wave him by on the straightaway.

I don’t know what to say about the crying on the NASA TT forums. You’ll never hear that attitude come from Greg G. He’s as aggressive as they come whether he’s running a race or for his TT times. People know this in So-Cal TT and usually get out of is way. Maybe you just need to make a rep for yourself as being aggressive but not outrageous, and the wimps will get out of your way.

The thing that’s great about TT is that when you feel you’re ready to race you’ll have all that experience and end up putting yourself higher in the grid for the beginning of a race.

Unfortunately we West-Coast drivers have the most accidents and most race fatalities in the NASA program because of aggressive driving. Maybe your guys need to speed up and my guys should slow down

 

[Ludachris]

Honestly, I would bring this up in a download meeting so that those instructors who are telling you to use TT to practice can be the same ones to explain to the people who whine that TT involves passing and being passed. It's the last step before wheel-to-wheel racing. If they're not comfortable with that then they should stick with HPDE. They should expect people to be using TT as a way to practice racing in some regards.

Another thought - the more time you spend on the track with the TT guys, the more comfortable you'll get with them and them with you. So in time, this might not be a non-issue. Forget what the guys in the TT forums say, just worry about your local TT group. They're the ones you need to deal with at events.

 

[Slow old poop]

Thanks, guys. I knew I could count on you for support.

I can't wait until they let me into Production Touring.

As for the Midwest folks being pansies -- I think most of the crybabies are in other regions. The Midwest region takes TT downright SERIOUS!

Rich

 

[eclipse2via]

Maybe you should say the same thing to them that some of them said when you voiced your opinion on dynoing the turbo cars:

"There's always HPDE if you don't like it"