big16g creep STILL

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

I have had a big16g for over a year and have had creep issues every since i bought the turbo brand new. This weekend I pulled the turbo apart and ported a path directly to the WG hole. This made a huge improvement over all my other attempts but i STILL creep at high RPMs in 2nd and worse in 3rd. I noticed when i had the turbo off that my wastgate flapper was only openning a 1/4" which is a far cry from how far it can open when it is not attached to the WG actuator arm. (amazingly i never noticed this before and i have had the d@mn thing off 5 times)

unfortunately I have an o2 dump and cannot port the space between the exaust hole and WG hole, i have heard this works great.

anyone have any idea how i can modify the WG actuator to open farther or can i order one that does this?

I have searched for this and only found out about the things i have already tried.
any help would be great!

 

[DSM90AWD]

An option would be to get a larger wastegate "puck" from TRE, SBR, TurboTrix..etc so you could port the W/G hole larger to allow more exhaust to flow thru.

I assume you have 3" DP? Those seem to be the root of most creep issues and (in more than one vendors opinion) overkill for a 16G setup.

 

[boostle]

So are you saying that if you apply boost to the WG actuator the flapper only opens 1/4"? Have you tried a different actuator?

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by boostle
So are you saying that if you apply boost to the WG actuator the flapper only opens 1/4"? Have you tried a different actuator?

It is normal.

And porting out the divider between the turbine exhaust and the wastegate exhaust is a horrible idea. It kills the flow out of the turbine.

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

getting a bigger flapper with a ported out WG hole would only cause less gas to escape. (it would cause more air to slam into the divider)

the WG actuator is acting normal. it only opens this much from the factory.

I also agree that removing the divider is bad for flow, but it seems to be the only option to completely eliminate creep.

im either going to have to move the pin on the flapper arm up higher so that it will open more with the same throw distance OR find an actuator that has a longer throw.

and yes everything i have is 3" or close (press bent) w/ a dump tube that is 3" (i know, overkill...but i wanted to eliminate the possibility of a too smal pipe on the WG side)
I have never heard you can go TOO big on the exhaust side. I thought turbos were designed to flow with the least amount of resistance in their path.

Ryan

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by Ryan95tsiAWD
getting a bigger flapper with a ported out WG hole would only cause less gas to escape. (it would cause more air to slam into the divider)

No, it does fix it. But at a cost.

I've posted so many times about this stuff that I'm getting tired of typing it in. Thus, I will stop.

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

thank you for trying to help me.
in some cases yes, it may work. but not in all cases.

I have 2 friends locally that have gone to 34mm flappers with the WG hole ported out as much as possible and it did not help them stop creep on a big 16g.

i may go with my original plan (before i got this bug up my a$$ to try and fix the internal) and put an external WG on the d@mn thing.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Originally posted by Ryan95tsiAWD
getting a bigger flapper with a ported out WG hole would only cause less gas to escape. (it would cause more air to slam into the divider)

better not tell TRE, SBR, FP, AGP, PTE or any other turbo vendor this is a bad idea as the 100s who bought the upgraded flapper option might wake up from their mass hysteria that they no longer have creep

I also agree that removing the divider is bad for flow, but it seems to be the only option to completely eliminate creep

and yes everything i have is 3" or close (press bent) w/ a dump tube that is 3" (i know, overkill...but i wanted to eliminate the possibility of a too smal pipe on the WG side)

I have never heard you can go TOO big on the exhaust side. I thought turbos were designed to flow with the least amount of resistance in their path

Removing the dividor directly impedes flow by creating unwanted turbulance at the turbine outlet. Running a 2.5" DP.. though flowing less "absolute" gas than a 3".. IMO is not hurting performance on a 16G.

From my experience with local friends.. kengsx ran a ported 16G with a PB 3" DP and creeped, another friend had an EVOIII (ported w/ big wg) and 3" DP and creeped. I run a small ported 16G with 2.5" DP and have never creeped. I ran the 2.5 because Buschur said it was more than enough for the 16G and would not creep like the 3".

When I decide to go big turbo.. I'll pick up the 3" DP (<$200).. but will also be running an external

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

i said "some" cases the flapper mod works...
it would be eaiser for me to go external than it would be for me to cut the stock WG flapper off and replace it on the off chance that it would work with my car's setup.

take a look around this forum, there are tons of guys who did the "big" flapper mod and it didnt get them sh$t but a lot of work and frustration.

are you running a CAT on your 2.5? you do understand that by creating any back pressure IE smaller exhaust, cat.. that you are not getting the full potential of the turbo and not flowing enough to have creep.

I didnt have creep until i replaced my o2 housing and removed the cat. but the damn spool up difference between my old vs new setup is a whole different world!

i am damn close to getting rid of boost creep completely(or within tolerable levels) and if you re-read my first post it says "I am looking for a way to open up the flapper more.." not how do i get rid of creep...i have done everything else!! (except the almighty flapper mod )

 

[DSM90AWD]

Originally posted by Ryan95tsiAWD
are you running a CAT on your 2.5? you do understand that by creating any back pressure IE smaller exhaust, cat.. that you are not getting the full potential of the turbo and not flowing enough to have creep

Yes.. am running a full 2.5" w/TP and Ultraflow Muffler. Never had creep.
and get 20psi by 3100 RPM. As for my comments on 3" vs 2.5".. I'm just reiterating what I was told by someone whom sells both, has experinece with both and would have made more $ selling me the 3".

i am damn close to getting rid of boost creep completely(or within tolerable levels) and if you re-read my first post it says "I am looking for a way to open up the flapper more.." not how do i get rid of creep...i have done everything else!! (except the almighty flapper mod )

Sorry for mentioning the flapper mod as thought you were looking for other ways to increase W/G flow (not just the actuator) and reduce creep. Yes the larger flapper itself does not guarantee "no creep" (as friend#2 still has it).. but does allow for more porting of the WG hole which if done right should.

Anywhos.. good luck!

 

[Ryan95tsiAWD]

i really do appreciate the help and i didnt mean to come off as a d$ck...

there are several guys(and girls) around here that run 14bs, 16gs, b16gs ....the flapper issue resolved one 16g that i know of and porting the crap out of the turbo housing making a clear path to the wg hole fixed one guys b16g issues...everyone else either got a bigger and better turbo setup or put a CAT back in to "hide" the creep.

I have done the porting(which helped a ton)...so it looks like external is the way to go...

thanks everyone.

 

[DSM90AWD]

no probs

..and buying an external now wil save you having to buy one next time you upgrade turbos (not to mention "beat the creep" with the B16G)

 

[eclpsegsx12]

i have an evo 3 16g....my car is a 98 gsx with a full 3 inch exhaust ect...

1st : i put the 16g on with nothing done it creeped like a mofo
2nd: took it off, sent it to road race and had then port it and do the 34mm wastgate flap..
3rd: got it back, put it on and it did the same thing
4th: blew a head gasket running too much boost from all the creep so i changed it out with a 1st gen head, ported the piss out of my o2 divider and the wastegate area and hole to let it open fully...

and finally, i got it back together, went for a drive and BAM, no boost creep...well maybe 1-2 lbs but itsd cold as shit here...10 lbs of boost and it holds steady to redline....

i did however find a solution when i had the 2g head and before everything was really ported good...i used my apexi silencer and that also stopped the creep....the exhaust in this case was to blame....there ya have it