Inspection problems.... what is this??

[joeym4130]

I have to get my talon inspected, it was from NJ before. This is the 3rd day of inspection....The EGR was blocked off and the mechanic was like "You need a new EGR." I told him it is probably just blocked off with the plate, and finally today he got around to checking and admitted it was still there. (We need these EGRs in PA :thumbdown ). But now he is saying something about a thermal sensor for the EGR, and that I need one and its not there??? All I could think he meant was a EGR gas temperature sensor, but thats for CA cars only... any idea what he is talking about? (this guy has no idea about mitsu's... he just is supposed to inspect the damn thing! haha. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Lordpaxin]

goto another shop.

my car didnt have lights, signals, or brakes, when i got it aligned and i said, i need a sticker too., and he looked at me, looked atthe car, and said Eh, looks like its all working to me

 

[joeym4130]

ok, i was just looking at a diagram of the EGR system, and there IS something called a thermo valve... maybe that is what he meant...wish i had the car right now to look at The mechanic said that if he gets the part he might not even know how to put it in....and I dont have time to go anywhere else! jeez!! haha.... any ideas/ reading on how to hook up this valve in the EGR system, or what it is?? thx!

 

[mitsutuner]

the purpose of the thermal switch is to prevent the EGR from dumping th exhaust gas into the intake when the motor is cold-this could cause the motor to stumble while warming up. My guess is the thermal switch is screwed into the thermostat housing on the front side-there should be 3 thermal devices there with wiring connectors--check to see if one of the 3 has been plugged off. these devices are usually pretty inexpensive.

 

[joeym4130]

k, thx i think I understand. My mechanic still has my DSM... (all i want is an inspection sticker !! haha) I told him that if he doesnt get the part in the car tomorrow that i'm coming to get the car so i can bring it home and do it myself! haha. Tonight I went to the closed shop and dropped a diagram of the EGR sys and copy of my shop manual down his mail slot!! HAHA....he's gonna love that.... boy DSMs really need someone who knows what they're doing it seems...good thing inspection is once a year...

 

[mitsutuner]

yup, your average mechanic is probably not really DSM qualified, & you'll be debugging their "collateral damage" for months. (it's a good idea to take a lot of digital pics before you put the car in the shop because it can be difficult to debug "missing parts") The mechanic that truly understands DSMs runs out the back door when you pull into driveway.

 

[joeym4130]

Yikes! Just found out my mechanic said he doesn't want to work on the car b/c he has no experience w/ DSMs. I need to know if anyone knows where I can get a Thermo Valve for the EGR. He says i dont have one. I am getting the car later tonight so I can see for sure. I'm gonna throw it in myself and take it back for the sticker . I knew this was a bad deal haha.....

Here is what I'm talking about. Any links to buy, or a part # or anything? thanks!

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[mitsutuner]

If the wires/connector are missing, your best bet might be the junkyard.
You might search the vendors that sponser this website. There's always your local mitsu or chrysler dealership. You could google search for junkyard or parts place near where you are or order online. I would try google search for "mitsubishi egr thermo valve".
You're lucky, at least your mechanic is honest & he did help you a lot, I would keep him in mind in the future. Good honest mechanics are very special people & if you keep this car long enough--you will be just that. It seems like with these cars DIY is the best way to go, & that usually involves a fair amount of web search--but then you always know exactly what was done.

 

[BISHILVR]

i have an idea....maybe your car has had it's ecu replaced with a cali emissions ecu???...if thats the case the ecu would have had a "ecu temp sensor" code in it when the inspection station scanned it for codes...they will scan for codes when you have emissions inspections done to make sure the car does'nt have any because if it does it is polluting too much. the code would set because the egr does'nt have the temp probe but the ecu thinks it does and it's just not outputing a signal because it has gone bad...my suggestion is pull the ecu and run the numbers (or post them on here) so someone can tell you if you have a cali ecu.....

 

[mitsutuner]

bishilvr, I wish I had known about a month ago of your extensive knowledge of the CA ECU part #md165532--maybe you could explain a little more about the "ECU temp sensor" & where it might be located on my car, or is it just an error code that shows up on your data-fogger.

 

[joeym4130]

Well if it was a Cali ECU, wouldnt that trigger a CEL? I got my logger today, ill run thru codes tomorrow see if anything is triggered. And im gonna go to a inspection station friday, my friend who also blocked his EGR like mine just hooked up vaccum lines running to correct locations to look like everything is all good when he got it inspected. I'm thinking of attempting the same. I dont have time/money right now to make it legal haha.

 

[mitsutuner]

When you run your data-logger, you might find an error code for the EGR thermo sensor, I'll be curious to know what happens when you hook it up. That's cool if you can get past the inspection & save a few bucks, maybe 15 or 20. I would think in the long run you would want to fix it because a cleaner exhaust would mostly benefit you, the driver.
I was being comical about the Data Fogger "ECU temp sensor" code, because I'm pretty sure it's non-existant & has no basis in "EGR thermo sensor" reality. I think bishilvr is california dreamin & whistling dixie at the same time, which is OK--I love humor.

 

[jrivard00]

Originally posted by mitsutuner
yup, your average mechanic is probably not really DSM qualified, & you'll be debugging their "collateral damage" for months. (it's a good idea to take a lot of digital pics before you put the car in the shop because it can be difficult to debug "missing parts") The mechanic that truly understands DSMs runs out the back door when you pull into driveway.

, that is priceless.

 

[BISHILVR]

nooo!!! i was absolutely serious about cali cars having an egr tems sensor probe. i have one here if you want me to send a pic of it to you just post your email address on here and i will send u a pic of the cali egr with temp sensor!!! the sensor is located on the egr around the base of the unit and will make a cali ecu flag an error code if it is not functional or if u have a cali ecu in your car but don't actually have a cali car....confused yet?? also what i meant by "egr temp sensor" was that maybe the tech at the inspection station scanned your car to make sure the emission system was "ready" and found a code stored for "egr thermo sensor" and this is what i am calling the "egr temp sensor" i can go look in the book and find the mitsu technical name for the part i anybody actually wants me to...

 

[joeym4130]

well, just a FYI in case anyone needs it, the thermo vac valve will not throw a code if missing from the system. I checked earlier w/ the logger.

 

[BISHILVR]

the part that i was referring to is not a vacuum part, it is indeed an electrical part that outputs a signal to the ecu much like any other sensor on the car will and it most definately WILL set a code if in fact that is the problem..? just my guess that that is what it might be

 

[MurdokGST]

I'll back u on that part beacause I have a Cali car, but live in NY-Go figure...But there is more "useless" parts on Cali cars.

 

[BISHILVR]

i also have a cali 90' eclipse in my collection (4) your right lots of extra crap!!!

 

[mitsutuner]

They have a new more extensive smog test that recently went into effect in CA, haven't done that 1 yet, but in the past, I've never see them tap into the ecu codes during a smog check,--what they do is hook up a vacuum pump to the egr & check to see that the EGR diaphragm is not leaking & visual check all emissions components to make sure they are installed & connected & of course, take an exhaust air sample out of your tailpipe at both idle & high rpms. The ECU EGR error code,(43) is used to let you know any time any 1 of the EGR components is failing (except for a leaking diaphragm).
Every car with EGR has a temp sensor that doesn't allow the exhaust gas to be recirculated when the motor is cold to prevent the motor from stumbling during warm-up.
I agree, life was OK before EGR & ECUs came along, but I wouldn't consider disabling the EGR because what comes out of my tailpipe is most likely going into MY lungs, & I prefer Marlboro.

 

[Defiant]

Originally posted by BISHILVR
i also have a cali 90' eclipse in my collection (4) your right lots of extra crap!!!

From the 1000AAQ:

"What are the differences between Federal cars and California (CA) cars?
"CA cars have more stringent emissions requirements than Federal cars, so they have a couple of extra pieces of equipment. An exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) solenoid valve is installed on CA cars next to the fuel pressure solenoid valve, while Federal cars have a empty space there. 1G CA ECUs are programmed slightly differently than Federal ECUs, making it problematic to switch ECUs from car to car without getting error codes.

"To add to the confusion, all 1994 USA DSMs had California emissions, meaning there are technically no Federal 1994 cars. This prevents 1994 owners from installing an EGR blockoff plate, as the CA-style ECU is smart enough to notice and flag an error code. This requires the substitution of a 92-93 Federal ECU for the original CA ECU.

"Other than that, there are no differences between Federal and CA cars."

You have an awfully delicate definition of "lots of extra crap".

 

[mitsutuner]

I originally thought that bishilvr mentioned an ECU temp sensor code, which makes a lot of sense if you think about it. It's well documented the ECUs get toasted-so why not put a temp sensor & cooling fan on the ECU housing? Or better yet, an "always on" fan liker your PC at home?
Did anybody happen to see the 313 cu. in. mustang in the recent issue of Hot Rod Magazine? It had a big turbo & big innercooler that had a big electric rad fan mounted to it---the moter dynoed well over 800 hp on 110 octane!!
ALL mitsus have a lot of crap on them, not just CA mitsus---that's just the way mitsu makes them. Routine maintence is 1 thing, but I can't ever recall a time that I didn't have "multiple repairs" between oil changes. Essentially, you never stop making payments on a mitsu. You might have 3-6 months go by that you don't take any money out of your pocket for the car, but set the money aside anyway, because the day IS coming when it still won't be enough to make the car run right.

 

[BISHILVR]

Let's not nitpick defiant!!! lord knows you have made your fair share of screw ups.....anyway when i posted that it was like 2:00 am or somethin and i was simply agreeeing with the previous post that mitsu threw in alot of extra crap on the cars in general that they really don't have to have (although the tree huggers are the ones responsible for it) and btw those parts listed in 1000vfaq are NOT the only differences between the cali and fed cars....(don't believe everything you read) like i stated earlier there is also an egr temp probe on the cali egr, which is what i meant by "temp sensor" (not to be confused with ECU temp sensor) i was talking EGR temp sensor (mitustuner)....

 

[mitsutuner]

100% correct bishilvr, the 1000 FAQ, while extremely helpfull most of the time, has a few glaring omissions & an annoying egomania overtone & condescension that seems pervavisve in many online automotive forums. What exactly is a newbie? At age 49 & having owned 35 cars, can I be a newbie & an oldie at the same time?
There is no shortage of mis-engineered crap on all mitsu vehicles, they were designed to be mass produced very cheaply & thrown away at 120k--which is what captivates us, we like the challenge of re-engineering & repairing semi-exotic machinery to make it function more reliably & deliver increased performance.
Regarding the ECU temp, it gets toasted on both sides because it was thoughtlessly placed between the heater box & stereo, inside the toaster oven console. It needs a cooling fan & haven't seen that mentioned on 1000 FAQ or any DSM group website. The websites are "works in progress" & rely on users to input new innovations & ideas..