after timing belt change

[klungie]

Guys,

I have done my timing belt change 120K. Everything went fine. I changed all belts: timing b, balance shaft b, a/c b, ps b, alt b.
I also changed balance belt tensioner, timing belt tensioner and idler pulley.

Put back all together... and start it...
First it idles bad.. then I adjust the BISS...

Now it idles fine at 750rpm...

Then I checked the ignition timing using timing light gun... it's way down the mark.. roughly about 20-25 BTDC!!!

My auto lock indicator is also on.
I turn on the heater... very cold air.. (the temperature is below 32F currently)

I let my car idle for 20 min... the fans never turn on...

My question is... is the 20-25BTDC I have related to the antilock light / heater/ fan problem?

Before I changed my belts, I never had all those problems before.

Could I possibly not installed the timing belt correctly? is it because balance shaft belt is too tight / loose?

Any advises/comments will be much appreciated.

Thanks guys...

 

[klungie]

I start my car again today... Now Antilock light is off... radiator fan is working....

I checked my ignition timing again... still 20-25 BTDC

Then I take out all my spark plugs... gosh... it's full with carbon... I'll try to clean it ... see if it does anything....

I am still wondering why my timing is way off... I've already ground the timing adjustment plug... turn cam angle sensor counter clock wise all the way....(from passenger side)

My guess is
1. i miss one tooth on timing belt
2. balance shaft is too tight / loose

Has anybody experience this before?

I've also search the forum... i don't anything similar to my case...

Please helpppp

 

[BUCK]

I take it you mean base timing = connector grounded - because I don't see where you tried to adjust the CAS - Please tell me that AFTER you set the Timing belt Tensioner that the marks still lined up perfectly & you didn't get screwed by the Exhaust cam moving when you set the Tensioner - good news is if that's the case most people would say you definitely have NOT bent a valve only 1 tooth off on exhaust cam.

This is not the problem (it's actually your NEXT problem) but WHY in hell do you still have balance shafts ??

 

[leet]

Your cam timing is off. Go back and reset it, and check it after you tension it (just like BUCK said.)

 

[klungie]

I adjust the base ignition timing following the instruction on http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html.

exhaust cam is the right cam, right?

I did recheck again all timing marks after set the timing belt tensioner... All marks are in correct place... I will put some picture tomorrow..

Do you think I should do the balance shaft removal like in vfaq : http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html

Because I don't have btdc off before timing belt change....

Do you think balance shaft removal can make my btdc correct again?

How long does it take usually to do the balance shaft removal? is it much harder than timing belt change?

 

[BUCK]

MY REPLIES IN CAPS FOR CLARITY ONLY - SORRY, BUCK>>>

FIRST OF ALL ARE YOU SURE YOUR TIMING LIGHT IS ON NUMBER 1 CYLINDER - SORRY TO INSULT YOU LIKE THAT BUT I HAVE TO ASK - IT'S THE SIMPLE CRAP THAT KILLS US ON THESE THINGS... I HAVE MADE THAT MISTAKE MYSELF - & A BUNCH OF OTHERS YOU WOULDN'T BELIEVE...

& WHEN YOU CRANK ON THE BISS SCREW YOU SHOULD ALWAYS HAVE THE PROPER DIAGNOSTIC CONNECTOR PIN GROUNDED - THAT'S NOT THE 20 DEGREE BTDC PROBLEM - BUT IT NEEDS TO BE DONE CORRECTLY BEFORE YOU SET BASE TIMING.

Originally posted by klungie I adjust the base ignition timing following the instruction on http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html.

GOOD - HAD TO ASK BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T MENTION BASE TIMING

exhaust cam is the right cam, right?

EXHAUST CAM IS THE CAM NEXT TO THE EXHAUST MANIFOLD.

I did recheck again all timing marks after set the timing belt tensioner... All marks are in correct place... I will put some picture tomorrow..

GOOD - HAD TO ASK - VERY COMMON ERROR - BUT WERE BOTH DOWELS UP? THESE ASSHOLES PUT 2 MARKS ON EACH CAM GEAR YOU KNOW...

Do you think I should do the balance shaft removal like in vfaq : http://www.vfaq.com/mods/balance-shafts.html

YES - BUT AS I SAID IT'S NOT THE PROBLEM NOW - IT'S YOUR NEXT PROBLEM IF YOU DON'T DO IT...

Because I don't have btdc off before timing belt change....
Do you think balance shaft removal can make my btdc correct again?

ABSOLUTELY NOT.

How long does it take usually to do the balance shaft removal? is it much harder than timing belt change?

IT'S ANOTHER DAYS WORK - BASICALLY PULLING THE FRONT CASE - WHICH YOU HAD STRIPPED DOWN ALREADY ANYWAY - REPLACE ALL THE OIL SEALS OF COURSE - YOU ARE HALF WAY THERE WHEN YOU DO A TIMING BELT JOB - LOOK AT THE POSTS OF THE GUYS WHO DO ALL THIS THEN FREEZE UP A BALANCE SHAFT BEARING VERY SOON AFTER & TAKE THEIR HEAD OUT - OR THE ENTIRE MOTOR OUT - YOU REALLY SHOULD DO THIS WHILE YOU ARE IN THERE IF AT ALL POSSIBLE - WATER PUMP TOO - WHO WANTS TO STRIP THE FRONT OF THESE MOTORS DOWN TIME AFTER TIME?

 

[klungie]

Yes... My timing light is on #1 cylinder.. the one nearest to the cams....

After I installed timing belt.. put back all accessories belts.. then I check and set BISS screw like in http://www.vfaq.com/mods/BISS-1G.html

After it idles at 750 rpm... then I set the timing ignition.

So you think i am off one tooth on the cams?
Is it usually off outward? then i have to turn the left cam clockwise 1 tooth or turn right cam counter clock wise 1 tooth? is that correct?

 

[BUCK]

OK - Sorry again to ask those "duh" questions but just checking.

I don't doubt that different engines react diffrently but my exhaust cam rolled counter clockwise 1 tooth when I tensioned it - Somehow the Intake cam moved very little - So yes I MIS-TIMED the 2 cams in relation to each other by 1 tooth - THEN when I tensioned the tensioner it somehow stretched the belt between the cams & it all fell into place - It actually took me about 3 times to hit it - Each time a succession of using the de-tensioning rod to allow slipping the belt off the crank to reposition it - that;s where I found it easiest to get the belt on & off.

BTW - The latest method I used to check proper tension was using the Pin that comes with a new tensioner - If you can slide the pin back & forth - you are within spec - the idiot Japanese translator who did the manual never figured that out!

I'm attaching a link to a recent good thread on this subject:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=87171

 

[klungie]

These are the pictures...
First one is I set it so that crank shaft and oil pump marks match up.

 

[klungie]

This is the corresponding balance shaft

 

[klungie]

The corresponding cams timing

 

[klungie]

Then I set so that cam marks face each other.

 

[klungie]

This is the resulted crankshaft and oil pump position

 

[klungie]

First, is the balance shaft mark correct ?
Because the triangle mark is not on 9 o'clock.. but the white mark is on 9 o'clock. If I move balance belt 1 tooth, the mark on crankshaft will not match up.

Second, is the timing belt correct?
Am I supposed to move exhaust (left) cam 1 tooth clockwise or counterclock wise?

Thanks for all the answers guys...