Is my engine done? I drove it pretty hard....

[adam355]

I took it up to 115 and the engine shut off once i started to slow down. Now whenever I give the car gas the engine makes a sputtering noise. Im also getting a lot of feel through the clutch when i give it gas. Besides that it seems to run alright. Like its driveable....not that im driving it. Think im going to have to rebuild? When I reved the engine to 3 grand a tiny bit of smoke came out...and it sounds just terrible.

edit: By the way the reason I think this happened is because my car creaps really bad and I think I overboosted. Look at my profile to see my mods.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by adam355
I took it up to 115 and the engine shut off once i started to slow down. Now whenever I give the car gas the engine makes a sputtering noise....

I'd do a compression check and if you don't know how old the spark plugs are, throw in a new set properly gapped. How long were you driving at 115 before you started to slow down. What were the conditions when you were able to restart?

You need to give us the compression check results. You may just be lucky and fried some plugs, don't mix them up when you pull them. If anything unusual take picts.

It doesn't help to tell us you may have overboosted and not give any info. We can try to help you but you got to help us help you. Not trying to be a jerk here, but it may have seem clear to you but we can only guess.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[1fast97gsx]

headgasket, fried plugs, blow turbo?

 

[me612]

did u check your intercooler pipes to see if they blew off anywhere?

 

[adam355]

Ok, sorry it took me so long to post back. I had the car towed to a shop and by listening to it they think I definatly busted something in the engine. Basicly I took the car up to 115 for just a sec, immediatly slowed down and the engine shut off while I was slowing. Then right after that I got that terrible sounding sputtering noise from under my hood. I was also getting a ton of vibration through the clutch. The clutch is the ACT 2100 and its pretty new so I doubt that went. The turbo seemed to be spooling fine so I dono if there is anything wrong with that. The car drives, not that I am....but there is a small loss in power and it just sounds horrible when I ever give it gas. It might be knocking but Im not sure what that sounds like. Also everything under the hood looks intact. Also sorry GDM, but Im not familiar with doing compression checks....Im guessing the shop will do that when they try to figure out what I busted in the engine. There going to call me back in a few days and tell me whats up.

 

[adam355]

Oh and if the engine is definatly done what do you guys think I should do? Should I just let the shop buy an engine or rebuild mine? Should I try to find an engine myself on the net and have them put it in? Im sorry, but im in a really bad bind here and I need some advice so I don't get ripped off. Any replies will be appreciated.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by adam355
Oh and if the engine is definatly done what do you guys think I should do? Should I just let the shop buy an engine or rebuild mine? Should I try to find an engine myself on the net and have them put it in? Im sorry, but im in a really bad bind here and I need some advice so I don't get ripped off. Any replies will be appreciated.

You got some tough choices ahead and you may need someone to help you in making those choices. You should try to get a compression check, if they say that's an additional charge above their inspection you should raise and eyebrow.

A rod or main bearing knock will have some special properties and differences within those 2 items. I won't go into that but if you were to take a hammer and bang on the side of the block you might get some sensation of what they sound like. You are not listening for the hammer blows but the resonance they give to the block.

The other noises could be front crank pulley could be coming apart though not usually an expensive repair.

The other serious condition is valve and valve train related. I don't know what 115 equals in RPM which if not visited very often may have stirred up some garbage in the oil system. This could have washed up to the head oiling system and plugged some passages including the valve lash adjusters which then could just make noise or cause some very serious side effects. When these loose oil pressure it allows the cam followers to hop out of their designated positions, flop onto their sides and not allow the valves to close in the proper sequence. This in turn puts them in a position to be hit by the pistons and they bend so as to not seat and seal the combustion chamber on the ignition sequence. Bent exhaust valves wont cause the same conditions as bent intake. A bent intake will allow fuel to ignite and spread flames back into the intake manifold which then contaminates the air for the next cylinder intake sequence. Thus the compression check will be an important diagnosis aide to determine if that has happened.

Cam timing can slip a cog on the intake which can just give poor running but if more than 1 tooth it's almost a certianty valves will be bumped. A worn, stretched, badly adjusted timing belt could have been the bad guy in all this. May have skipped over some other info but that is a start.

Now you have the choice on what to do if you have damage that requires the engine to have major surgery.

I'll follow up in next post while you mull this over.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by GTM

Understand you have choices, you can ask them to put the engine back into the shape they received it. You will (may?) have to pay for the diagnostic time at a fair labor rate which you signed or authorized over the phone. You can have it towed home or to another shop, that's not their business but they can't put you in the s..t by leaving parts and bolts scattered all over so they can get lost.

If they are going to do some or all the work you need to be advised what that is and how much. Sometimes unforseen conditions can arise which will go over any written estimate but if it smells bad then be careful.

If they give you the choice or you ask for it and find a complete running engine they can only be responsible for the work they do. They are only the middleman so you must understand they can't guarantee what they didn't hear run or didn't inspect before starting an installation. You will have to have an understanding with the engine supplier as to it's condition so you can protect yourself. If the seller says it's a good running engine then you need to have a wittness who hears him make that claim. It's not easy to test one of these new engines to make it run for a minute so you can hear bearing of valve noises. It's not problem to get a compression check with the engine sitting on the floor if there is a starter on the engine or from your car.

If they supply the engine then if something goes wrong they are responsible for dealing with the supplier.

Now if you want to explore having a better performing engine and elect to install a different engine there will be some complications in making the swap which may be out of their scope of knowledge. In which case you could have them do the swap but then tow it home where you could do the mods you want and any interface problems. I am no DSM expert so that information will have to come from other members here on DSMtuners who have been there and done that if you are interested in pursuing that choice. The fastest way to get transportation will be installing a like engine or repairing what you have.

I've sure you are doing some soul searching about the wisdom of the 115, certainly my son's car is capable of this on occasion plus some more. I don't know the before condition with your car, if you had never seen 80 and decided to just put pedal to the metal without having tested other speeds before, might be a poor decision but from what I know of the cars they should have handeled that without coming apart. In other words you have to take baby steps before deciding you want to run a marathon for you might have been able to notice something was not right and back out before that unfortunate situation.

You can't be playing the radio, fooling around with friends for that won't give your full attention to what is happening. Having 4 pob is a lot of weight so seat of pants might have been an indicator of how long it took to get to the 115. Coming off the throttle would have made a lean condition and caused piston damage. This may prove to be an expensive lesson when it's your only transportation.

Can't squeeze blood from a turnip, if they are going to charge storage you may be better towing it home until you can make the proper decisions or what your wallet says you can do.

Any of that help?

Cheers,
GTM

 

[adam355]

GTM,

Thank you very much for the advice, I really appreciate it. The shops working on it right now and are supposed to call me today or tomorrow to tell me exactly what needs to be replaced. Ill post back with what they said.

 

[Colossus]

If it comes to it, rebuild it yourself. It'll be much cheaper. As an example, a local tranny shop wanted $2300 to get me a used tranny for my TSI, and $3000 for a new one. Sheperd wanted $1100 to rebuild it. Shops are just to exspensive.

 

[adam355]

Originally posted by Colossus
If it comes to it, rebuild it yourself. It'll be much cheaper. As an example, a local tranny shop wanted $2300 to get me a used tranny for my TSI, and $3000 for a new one. Sheperd wanted $1100 to rebuild it. Shops are just to exspensive.

How can I do it myself when I'd have no clue how to do it? And who or what is Sheperd?

 

[herovueboi]

Shepard, a guy that owns a 8.8xx 1/4 and has a shop. I have seen his car run at Norwalk, thats one fast street car!

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Colossus
If it comes to it, rebuild it yourself.
...
As an example, a local tranny shop wanted $2300 to get me a used tranny for my TSI, and $3000 for a new one. Sheperd wanted $1100 to rebuild it. Shops are just to exspensive.

The name of that tune is to blow the customer out the door, they don't want your business so will give you an exaggerated figure. They don't want to admit they can't do the job or can make more money doing what they know best. Sometimes you can spot customers who will drive you nuts and not leave you alone so you have to add in the factor of aggravation money but this is way beyond that. The downside to the shop giving that sort of estimate is you remember and even though you have a different car you still don't go back. Would be better if they said we are just too busy now and couldn't get to it for a month or we work on xyz cars and do these type of jobs. However, John Doe down the street likes these and will give you a good price, now you leave with a positive attitude about the shop. Let's face it, the small shop is usually made up of self-made self-trained mechanics who may not always realize how to romance the customer in a favorable manner.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[fertez_turbo]

Just a guess, but what would be the symptoms of a floated lifter? I know high RPM can cause that, although I've held 140-150 on the highway for about 4 miles.
-dale

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by fertez_turbo
Just a guess, but what would be the symptoms of a floated lifter? I know high RPM can cause that,
...

I can guess what you mean but would be better if you said and explained / described what you meant.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[adam355]

Well I'm finally back, I'v been out of a pc for a few weeks and the shop has been screwing around with me and not getting to my car. They finally got to it and took the head off. They called me and said the crankshaft is completely busted and that the number 3 rod bearing is pretty much gone. They are asking me whether they want me to have them rebuild it or swap engines now, but they said they don't know how comfortable they would be rebuilding it. So far the only newly rebuilt 4g63 they can find will take up to 6 weeks to get and is gonna be about 3,500. Which is way to expensive just for the motor. I see JDM's online for 1500 shipped.... Anyways, this is like one of the only shops in town that will do this work for me so I might not have any choice. Hopefully I can get them to rebuild it for a lot cheaper. GTM, any more replies will be appreciated. Thanks guys.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by adam355
Well I'm finally back, I'v been out of a pc
...
about 3,500. Which is way to expensive just for the motor. I see JDM's online for 1500 shipped.... Anyways, this is like one of the only shops in town that will do this work for me so I might not have any choice. Hopefully I can get them to rebuild it for a lot cheaper. GTM, any more replies will be appreciated. Thanks guys.

Bummer about the PC and the engine.

Yes the $3500 is out of the question. I read here different opinions of JDM and I have no 1st hand experience. I have viewed their site in the past and if you believe everything you read there all would be well.
...........

You are between a rock and several hard spots, from what you describe it might be best to abandon that engine for a couple of reasons. The shop isn't comfortable with making repairs and unless you can find a replacement crank it would require regrind which from the way you describe where you live it's some distance to any place that could do the specialized regrind. Have you called any wrecking yards and asked them to put it on the "hotline" which is network of wrecking yards which may cover several states. This way you can "shop" for the best price and location to you. Once located some yards will deliver but access to a small trailer you could pick it up yourself. This gives you the opportunity to see before you buy and 1st hand contact on what sort of guarantee they will offer. Gone are the days of squirting gas down the carb and hooking up a starter and coil to see it run. The 6 weeks delivery from JDM is asking a bit much for this has already been several weeks.

I don't know how skilled you are but doing an engine swap can be involved but not impossible if you have a place to work. As a novice it might take a week in your spare time but any way you look at it you would probably be money ahead. Search eBay, local papers, maybe Recycler.com for a wreck you can bag the engine and scrap the car, remember the models which will interchange.

Just checked recycler and found a 1990 GS here in So. Ca. for $1000, a bit far for me to drive and check it out but if you could find a running car and buy a plane ticket it could be a possibility. Don't know which Eclipse had turbo block. Nothing found under parts using DSM.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[jrivard00]

I don't believe the crank on a turbo eclipse CAN be re-ground. It has hardened journals. Sorry to hear about the motor but still it doesn't sound quite right to me that heading down the highway at 115 would cause such an event to occur. You would be running close to 4.5-5k at that speed which most weekend dragster see all the time. Did they go in to more detail with you about the actual physical damage?

 

[adam355]

I dono, I really wouldn't feel comfortable doing the engine myself. I just don't wanna spend all that money and end screwing something up. Anyways Iv been looking around and a town about 15-20 min away has a shop that does engine swaps I just heard about. I called them up and they sais 2400 for the engine and 650 for the labor. Theres a 3 year unlimited mile warranty too but I'm guessing my aftermarket mods will void that. Anyways, I'm prolly gonna go with them and I told the shop that my car is at right now that if they can't find a cheaper engine in a few days that I'm gonna go to this other shop. Just over 3 grand sounds pretty reasonable for the whole job. The guy said he's even come pick the car up so I don't have to tow it up there.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by adam355
I dono, I really wouldn't feel comfortable doing the engine myself.
...
2400 for the engine and 650 for the labor. Theres a 3 year unlimited mile warranty too but I'm guessing my aftermarket mods will void that.
...
The guy said he's even come pick the car up so I don't have to tow it up there.

Understood, it's an aquired skill which some just don't care to indulge.
...........

Leave the mods off until you are comfortable the engine is going to perform as needed. In round math that's $1000/yr, or $80/mo and you can't buy another used car that will give you that engine security.
..............

Just having them pick up the car indicates a willingness to comit to the task, FREE is good. It takes some of the burden of choices off you and you get on with your life. Read the fine print on the warranty, try to establish who can do the maintenance. This can be as simple as a small note pad/note book where you recored gasoline purchase, milage, oil change, purchase, date done etc. Doesn't take a lot of time to make an entry but it shows a systematic concern so if some issue comes up you have the data written down.

Cheers,
GTM