Starter not turning motor over

[Jarg-gst]

My starter will turn over fine but it doesn't turn the motor over. What are the likely problems?

 

[NOSLO2PT0]

have you changed the flywheel recently? Very possible the gears in your starter are shot. Try a known good starter. If that's not it, pray your ring gear didnt' separate from the flywheel.

 

[Jarg-gst]

Haven't changed the flywheel but swaped tranny a month or so ago. Was running fine till a few days ago when it wouldn't start? Maybe something came lose?

 

[Doug99RS]

I would recomend the following:

Remove inspection over and inspect timing belt movement while trying to crank. The timing belt may be broken causing a "no start" condition. It will sound like the starter is working but not engaging the flywheel/flexplate. The actuallity in that situation is that the starter is turning over the flywheel/flexplate which will spin the crank but since the belt is broken then the cams won't spin. No air coming in, no air going out and so it's doesn't build up any pressure in the cylinders.



Remove spark plug and use flash light to watch piston movement while trying to crank. Same as above just another way to make sure the crank is spinning.

Remove starter and take to repair shop/parts store and check starter drive operation. Sometimes a starter drive will go out. It spins but the gear does not get pushed out to contact the flywheel and spin it too.

Let us know what you find after checking those things.
Doug

 

[Jarg-gst]

Ok well, semi-update. I was able to jump start the car from a roll with a friend pushing it. The car was running fine but once off, it wont start back up. Just hear the starter turning over.

 

[Doug99RS]

I would recomend removing and replacing the starter then. Sounds like the last option I listed.
Doug

 

[Jarg-gst]

Thanks, I think that might be it.

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
I would recomend the following:
...
Remove starter and take to repair shop/parts store and check starter drive operation. Sometimes a starter drive will go out. It spins but the gear does not get pushed out to contact the flywheel and spin it too.

Let us know what you find after checking those things.
Doug

Hi Doug:

This is getting pretty close, depending on how brave they pulling the starter apart isn't so bad.

Correct me if I'm wrong, i't is sounding like one of the brushes is bad for the selonoid circuit runs from the small wire, through the electro magnet coil and then into just 1 brush. The other positive (+) brush will spin the motor without the engaging the selonoid.

Somehow this isn't even making sense to me but I don't have starter in front yet know it's true. My point is they may be able to get away with just changing brushes. I fear they will just condem the whole starter for a $5 set of brushes.
.................


Could try this before even getting your hands dirty.

Don't think anyone gave them the old trick of a hammer and a section of wood broomstick (2x4 will also work). Put one end on the rear cover and give it a good smack. This will sometime jiggle the brushes into making contact and could last for months more. For others it may last for a week or do no good at all. You can try to start after the first smack, if nothing happens give a few more and try again. You are not trying to dent the back cover so play it by ear. Don't try it with the starter motor spinning for the selonoid could engage and damage teeth on the ring gear.

I've had more than one car that I carried a blanket, hammer, and block of wood just for the purpose. You throw the blanket down halfway under the car when it's pouring rain, grab the hammer smack twice throw eveything in the trunk and you are off again before you have to suffer the embarassment of onlookers.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Doug99RS]

Yeah GTM, you're right on at least the ideas. The first dealership I worked at we did some internal repairs to starters on certain Chrysler vehicles. The symptoms in those starters most of the time were a single click similar to a dead battery. The problem was two plates that worn out from a plunger type component contacting them. The plunger wore some but we never replaced them. The contacts themselves were about $5.00 and we charged maybe an hour to pull it out, swap out the contacts and then reinstall it.

Unfortunately, I've worked at several other dealerships that either don't know how to get those contacts or don't want to. Parts manager's tend to have fits when we sell $5.00 worth of parts instead of $200.00+. I'd much rather be fixing them and saving the customer money than sell them a complete starter that they really don't need.

So... if you know how to rebuild one and can get the parts to do it then you might have a chance at saving some money.

With the hammer... yeah, that's a chrysler tech's best friend. It's good for diagnosing bad computers, starters, relays, and fuel pumps. You may be able to break the starter loose and get it to work for the mean time but the problem will only get worse so start saving your money now.
Doug

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
...

The problem was two plates that worn out from a plunger type component contacting them. The plunger wore some but we never replaced them.
...

Unfortunately, I've worked at several other dealerships that either don't know how to get those contacts or don't want to. Parts manager's tend to have fits when we sell $5.00 worth of parts instead of $200.00+. I'd much rather be fixing them and saving the customer money than sell them a complete starter that they really don't need.

So... if you know how to rebuild one and can get the parts to do it then you might have a chance at saving some money.

With the hammer... yeah, that's a chrysler tech's best friend. It's good for diagnosing bad computers, starters, relays, and fuel pumps. You may be able to break the starter loose and get it to work for the mean time but the problem will only get worse so start saving your money now.
Doug

Hi Doug:

Are you talking about the plunger that closes the big copper contact in the selonoid? I use to just clean them up on other cars and file them down. No parts involved.
...........

It's hard to find a good parts department any more.
.......

Hopefully they will get back to us with good news on their starter problem.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Doug99RS]

... I love it. I've heard of similar stories with regards to controllers. Nothing like sending way too much current through a known bad component to ensure the warranty Nazi's don't bounce a claim.

The plunger you were talking about... we did the same thing AND replaced the two contacts. The plunger was much harder to replace (availability was null from Chrysler) so we just cleaned it up. The contracts were easy to get so we replaced them.

With the hammer approach it was more of a massage idea. Frequently using a dead blow rubber mallet that had a broad head and soft surface yet still delivered a jarring blow to the bad component without actually leaving evidence of "massaging". But it works most of the time.

To an extent I understand the parts guy's point of view but if it were my shop I think that I would buy it for $5.00, charge $20.00 and still save the customer a tremendous amount of money. Come tax time it's alot easier to pay taxes on left over inventory on $5.00 worth of parts than $300.00 and the profit percentage on the mark up is still nice. Oh well, maybe if I ever get my own shop I'll see what I can do to find a happy medium that makes me money and still does the customer justice. Thanks again for another insightful discussion GTM.
Doug

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
... I love it. I've heard of similar stories with regards to controllers. Nothing like sending way too much current through a known bad component to ensure the warranty Nazi's don't bounce a claim.
...
Oh well, maybe if I ever get my own shop I'll see what I can do to find a happy medium that makes me money and still does the customer justice. Thanks again for another insightful discussion GTM.
Doug

I don't mean to imply a lack of responsibility or lacking ethics. Sometimes you can complaint to the factory and they just shine you on, make like it's only unique to your dealership ...
Where's our starter person, want to hear how they made out.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Doug99RS]

He probably fell asleep after the first really long post we made not directly related to his question. As for the continued training, while it's not exactly a high school or local (a.k.a. cheap) college, I am currently registered for school in Wyoming next October. Wyotech if you've ever heard of it. It would be nice not to have to come back to the dealership after that but I hope I would be all but invaluable with what I know now and what I will learn in school.

In an effort to (edit "not")put other's in to a coma, I'll stop there and invite you to continue on, anytime, in PM's.
Doug

 

[GTM]

Originally posted by Doug99RS
He probably fell asleep after the first really long post we made not directly related to his question.
...

In an effort to put other's in to a coma, I'll stop there and invite you to continue on, anytime, in PM's.
Doug

Thanks, point well taken.
GTM