My timing marks are off! What do i do?

[KingChooser]

I am changing my head gasket. I am about to take off my timing belt and Hayne's wants me to line up the timing marks so that its TDC before removing the belt (Im not sure why). But anyway, They don't all match up. I mean when I line the marks on the camshafts up, the marks on the crankshaft don't line up. (in the range of an inch or so).

The engine was rebuilt by the last owner not too long ago. COuld he have put the belt on wrong. What I'm asking is, Is there any reason to mark the pully's current positions and put it right back to were it was, or should I put it back according to the markings on the pullies. I would think, I should go according to the factory markings, and not its current position. What do you think?

 

[turboholic]

-Which mark are you going by on the crank? the little notch on the alternator belt pully or the bigger notch on the spacer seperate the timing belt and the balance shaft belt?

 

[KingChooser]

Originally posted by turboholic
-Which mark are you going by on the crank? the little notch on the alternator belt pully or the bigger notch on the spacer seperate the timing belt and the balance shaft belt?

thanks for replying. Well, right now, the marker at ~2:30 on the crankshaft pully is lined up (I think thats what youre calling the " bigger notch on the spacer seperate the timing belt and the balance shaft belt"). The notch on the small pully to the right of the crank sahft ( I believe thats the balance pully) is about 90* off. The timing marks on the camshafts are about 0.5 inch off, maybe a little less.

Maybe the guy who bebuilt it didnt do a very thorough job. I remember he had left a sheared off bolt in the engine and It died a day after he sold it to us, so we called him and he took it back and fixed it. Also, the head gasket appears to be already leaking, ts'why Im replacing it. And also, there are a BUNCH of missing bolts.

 

[turboholic]

-The notch on the timing belt spacer is line up with the arrow at ~2:30, the key on the crank shaft point to 9:00, notice the spacer that seperate the timing belt and the balance belt is "dish" shape (not flat) it can go on backward (very bad result). the sprocket to the right is the oil pump, the little triangle indentation on the sprocket point to the arrow at around 11:00 on the front housing.

-Also check the mark of the front balance shaft belt if the shaft is still on the motor.

 

[KingChooser]

so turboholic, do you recommend I just forget about puttign it back to its current position, but just adjust all the pullies to line up with all the stock positions? Thats what I'm planning on doing. I think the last guy who did it just didnt do a very good job at lining up all the markings, but I dunno. He mighta had a reason for offsetting the markings.

 

[turboholic]

Originally posted by KingChooser
so turboholic, do you recommend I just forget about puttign it back to its current position, but just adjust all the pullies to line up with all the stock positions?

-If you're changing the head gasket, then line up all the bottom marks once you have the head off to prevent the piston hitting the valves, if you have already put the head back on, just loosen both cam shafts from the bearing caps(10), all the valves are close at this time, you can hand crank the crank shaft to line up the marks this way. Check out the vfaq.com for timing belt instruction if you having done it before, use a clamp to hold the belt on the intake cam sprocket will help a lot.

 

[KingChooser]

thanks alot for your help. I havent taken the head off yet, I cant find a store that has a 13mm allen socket in stock. I will check out the vfaq page though. I have been using Hayne's manual up to this point.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Yikes. I cant believe the engine didnt run like total crap or bend valves if it was that far off. An inch is gotta be like 4 or 5 teeth. I had my car 1 tooth off and it ran like crap. Anyway, line them up to stock for sure and definetly check out the vfaq. It goes into more detail and has better pictures than the Haynes manual. Autozone should have the Hex bit for the head bolts.

 

[turboholic]

Originally posted by KingChooser
I cant find a store that has a 13mm allen socket in stock.

-It's 10mm, you don't have to buy a "allen socket", all you need is an 10mm allen wrench, just cut about 2-3" off the straight end, stick it into an 10mm socket (3/8), wrap some teflon or electrical tape on the allen wrench so it won't fall off.

 

[KingChooser]

Originally posted by RoasT BeeF
Yikes. I cant believe the engine didnt run like total crap or bend valves if it was that far off. An inch is gotta be like 4 or 5 teeth. I had my car 1 tooth off and it ran like crap. Anyway, line them up to stock for sure and definetly check out the vfaq. It goes into more detail and has better pictures than the Haynes manual. Autozone should have the Hex bit for the head bolts.

Hmmm, well maybe I was wrong then. Maybe it wasn't an inch, cause it was only maybe one or two teeth off.

Holy cow, I just looked at the vfaq page for a timing belt replacement. (site was down earlier today) Wow that is pretty thorough. Much more detailed than Hayne's. Thanks for the advise guys.

 

[KingChooser]

Originally posted by turboholic


-It's 10mm, you don't have to buy a "allen socket", all you need is an 10mm allen wrench, just cut about 2-3" off the straight end, stick it into an 10mm socket (3/8), wrap some teflon or electrical tape on the allen wrench so it won't fall off.

hmmm, I don't think I am following your idea. Hayne's manual says 13mm allen socket, but what I think youre saying is that I can use my 10mm regular socket and it'll fit into the hole intended for a 13mm allen socket. I just ran out to the garage, and my 10mm socket has a cylindrical wall on the outside, so I'm not sure how that'd work, but I don't think I am following your idea. I'd check the vfaq, but I only see instructions for timing belt, not head removal.

 

[turboholic]

Originally posted by KingChooser
hmmm, I don't think I am following your idea.

-You need this kind of allen wrench to lossen/tighten the head bolt, but if you don't have those wrench, just cut a small section of an allen wrench(10mm) and stick it into an appropriate size socket(10mm).

 

[KingChooser]

Originally posted by turboholic


-You need this kind of allen wrench to lossen/tighten the head bolt, but if you don't have those wrench, just cut a small section of an allen wrench(10mm) and stick it into an appropriate size socket(10mm).

Ahhh. I see what you're describing. No, I don't have any allen wrenches that large and if I did, I'd have no way to cut them (unless, i could dremel through them). And I think you're right about 10mm (I'm sure you already knew that). Hayne's said 13mm, but after comparing a 10mm socket with the bolts on the head, I think its 10 mm. Welp, imma have to go buy something thats 10mm wide tommorrow, whether its an allen wrench or a socket shown in the link.

 

[KingChooser]

Holy smokes....
Take a look at this. This is apparently what happens when your timing is off. I was thinking that maybe those indentions were in there from the factory, but those sure dont look machined to me.

http://kingchooser.8m.com/

EDIT: I've since been told that those ARE intentional indentions. No big deal, I guess.

 

[turboholic]

-The photo is burry, there're 4 valve relieves on each piston, but you can easily tell the different because the impact from the valve creat sharp edge 1/2 moon cut.

 

[RoasT BeeF]

Its 10mm

Just go to autozone and buy the socket its like $5 and will save ya some time.

Also, the Haynes does not go into great detail about removing the head. If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I have done my head 3 times and can most likely answer any question or help you with any prob you may encounter.

 

[KingChooser]

Originally posted by RoasT BeeF
Its 10mm

Just go to autozone and buy the socket its like $5 and will save ya some time.

Also, the Haynes does not go into great detail about removing the head. If you have any questions feel free to PM me. I have done my head 3 times and can most likely answer any question or help you with any prob you may encounter.

yea, I bought one for 3.99 at autozone. Thanks for the invitation to PM you w/ questions. I may take you up on that.

 

[TalonGrrl]

King, I had to hunt you down as you have PMs disabled. I have a bunch of used head studs from my 95 with the washers still on them. If this'll work for ya, you can have them.