Ingition starter work BUT won't crank

[esoung]

My battery caught fire and burned up the fuse box mounted on the battery and some wiring around the battery. I replaced all the damage I could see and tried starting the car. The ignition starter and the gauge displays works but it won't crank.

Is there any specify relays or sensors that restricts cranking or is it a possibility the fire shorted or fried my ECU?

 

[the_mork]

You can try turning the ignition on and then just running a test lead directly to the starter to see if it will crank and start the car, if so double check your starter wiring. I would be that its the starter wiring.

 

[steve]

My battery caught fire and burned up the fuse box mounted on the battery and some wiring around the battery. I replaced all the damage I could see and tried starting the car. The ignition starter and the gauge displays works but it won't crank.

You need to explain.

Cranking is just that. The starter spins the engine. It cranks it over. The expressions dates back to when cars actually had a crank you used to start the engine before electrical starters.

I have no idea what a ignition starter is.

If the starter works, then the engine turns over but might not fire or fires but won't start.
The starter can spin and not engage with the flywheel to turn the engine over. This is one case of the engine not cranking.
And nothing can happen when you turn the ignition to START. That would also be a case of the engine not cranking.

So what is happening?

 

[esoung]

You need to explain.

Cranking is just that. The starter spins the engine. It cranks it over. The expressions dates back to when cars actually had a crank you used to start the engine before electrical starters.

I have no idea what a ignition starter is.

If the starter works, then the engine turns over but might not fire or fires but won't start.
The starter can spin and not engage with the flywheel to turn the engine over. This is one case of the engine not cranking.
And nothing can happen when you turn the ignition to START. That would also be a case of the engine not cranking.

So what is happening?

Maybe I explained this wrong. To make it more clear the car has power, the instrument cluster, wideband, gauge, and SAFC all power up. However when I try to start the car all I hear is a click. It is probably the coil-pack sparking.

 

[Avionixx]

Maybe I explained this wrong. To make it more clear the car has power, the instrument cluster, wideband, gauge, and SAFC all power up. However when I try to start the car all I hear is a click. It is probably the coil-pack sparking.

I want to say that the clicking noise you're hearing is the starter relay, but to be sure, try to find out where it's coming from. The starter relay is above the fuse panel underneath the driver's side dash.

 

[steve]

+1 for the starter relay.

The path of the signal to the starter to engage is slightly convoluted and it sounds like you don't have a real manual to look at.

On manual cars the signal goes to the starter relay to the starter solenoid. The starter relay is a normally closed type, meaning the contacts are closed by default and activating the relay opens them disconnecting the input from output. The starter signal from the ignition also goes to one of the relay coil pins so that it applies 12v to both the contacts and the coil when you turn the switch to START. The other side of the coil runs to a safety interlock. There are different types depending on auto or manual. On the 91+ manual cars it runs to the clutch safety switch and from there to ground. If the CSS is closed the starter relay will activate and break the connection from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid. That's likely the click you hear, the starter relay opening.

The quick test is to disconnect the CSS. That will keep the starter relay from opening.

 

[esoung]

The quick test is to disconnect the CSS. That will keep the starter relay from opening.

I already removed the CSS when I install the remote starter security system.

 

[the_mork]

Have you tried bench testing the starter or using a test lead like I suggested, it sounds like the starter relay is clicking therefore there's really only one thing left to check to get the starter to turn.

 

[esoung]

Have you tried bench testing the starter or using a test lead like I suggested, it sounds like the starter relay is clicking therefore there's really only one thing left to check to get the starter to turn.

I don't how to bench testing the starter or test the lead.

 

[the_mork]

Find yourself a wire (relatively large diameter) and run it from the positive side of the battery to the positive post if the starter spins then it is okay if it doesn't then it is toast THINK SAFETY don't get your hand or anything else caught in anything as this will turn the motor and make sure you have the car well secured if it is up in the air. Otherwise, take the starter out of the car and ground one side and then hook it up to the positive side of the battery in exactly the same way, this is the same procedure but sometimes its a little easier and safer depending on conditions. Don't let the starter keep running if it turns then thats it and it works leave it at that and post back.

 

[steve]

It's a lot safer to disconnect the wire to the starter solenoid and check to see if it gets 12v when you try and crank the car. If it does then you have a starter problem.

 

[esoung]

Well I got the starter to engage but the car won't turn-over. The coil pack doesn't spark and the fuel pump won't pump.

 

[the_mork]

How are you getting the starter to turn? Are you hooking it up directly or does it turn now using the key? If it turns on with the key check the wiring to your fuel pump to make sure none of that was burned (it might even be worth it just to rewire it for better performance as this should completely rule out wiring problems for the fuel pump, this article will tell you all about rewiring and testing the fuel pump Eclipse Fuel Pump Tech Tips) If you aren't using the key to run the starter then check and make sure you have the key in the On position when cranking the motor. The only consideration is you might want someone in the car to shut it off quickly if there is a problem as you will be unable to reach the key quickly while holding the starter wires.

 

[steve]

Well I got the starter to engage but the car won't turn-over. The coil pack doesn't spark and the fuel pump won't pump.

You sure that the ECU is running?
Can you talk to it with your datalogger? Does the boost gauge go to 0 when you turn the ignition on? Do you get a CEL for five seconds when you turn the ignition on?

These are some of the ways to verify that the ECU is getting power and running.

 

[esoung]

You sure that the ECU is running?
Can you talk to it with your datalogger? Does the boost gauge go to 0 when you turn the ignition on? Do you get a CEL for five seconds when you turn the ignition on?

These are some of the ways to verify that the ECU is getting power and running.

I don't a CEL. Boost it always at 7 psi but I try to start the car and the starter it engaging it goes to -7 psi.

I have a solenoid but I cannot find the connect. It's been too long and I cannot remember whether this solenoid was used or not.

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boost control solenoid?

 

[steve]

That's why I was asking about the wiring of your SAFC before because that's not the correct behavior.
If the ECU isn't running then you not going to get spark. You should still get the fuel pump to turn on while the starter is engaged.

Assuming that your CEL light works it should come on for five seconds when you turn the ignition on.

 

[esoung]

How are you getting the starter to turn? Are you hooking it up directly or does it turn now using the key? If it turns on with the key check the wiring to your fuel pump to make sure none of that was burned (it might even be worth it just to rewire it for better performance as this should completely rule out wiring problems for the fuel pump, this article will tell you all about rewiring and testing the fuel pump Eclipse Fuel Pump Tech Tips) If you aren't using the key to run the starter then check and make sure you have the key in the On position when cranking the motor. The only consideration is you might want someone in the car to shut it off quickly if there is a problem as you will be unable to reach the key quickly while holding the starter wires.

I starting the car with the key ignition. The wiring of the fuel pump is fine. Although I have a Walbro 255lph which is power straight to the battery and a 20 amp fuse. I not too sure if the use is correct but it doesn't matter because the car is not sparking.

 

[steve]

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boost control solenoid?

Nope. We need to see the colors on the original (harness) side of that connector. The 90's have a couple of connectors like that that are easy to mix up. IIRC the injector resistor pack and ISC come to mind. Swapping them will cause the car not to start.

 

[esoung]

Nope. We need to see the colors on the original (harness) side of that connector. The 90's have a couple of connectors like that that are easy to mix up. IIRC the injector resistor pack and ISC come to mind. Swapping them will cause the car not to start.

I don't what the original harness side color is. But if you're talking about the harness border it's purple with four blue wires.

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Anyways, the car turned over but harness still isn't connect to anything. The car has a boost leak but car idles fine. The engine doesn't sound right but doesn't knock and no matter how I adjust the SAFC the wideband always reads lean and the medium and high fuel trim and the FTO2 is always 100%. Could it possible be the ECU? It's certian no lean due to the smell of the exhaust and of the sound.

 

[steve]

No I was talking about the color of the wires before the red crimps (the original harness, not the connector grafted on). They may be the exact same colors or may not be, you can't see them in that picture.

 

[esoung]

No I was talking about the color of the wires before the red crimps (the original harness, not the connector grafted on). They may be the exact same colors or may not be, you can't see them in that picture.

There are the same color. I only cut-off a chunk of the line in between because they line because it was burned. It's odd I cannot find the other harness. I wouldn't repair it if it wasn't used.

 

[Epixinc]

that harness is against the firewall directly behind the intake manifold, right? Thats the connector to the cruise control system

 

[esoung]

that harness is against the firewall directly behind the intake manifold, right? Thats the connector to the cruise control system

No, it's in between the main fuse relay box and the battery.

 

[steve]

Thats the connector to the cruise control system

Yep, the wire colors match the connector for the '90 cruise control actuator, A-09.

That shouldn't have any impact on starting the car.

 

[esoung]

Yep, the wire colors match the connector for the '90 cruise control actuator, A-09.

That shouldn't have any impact on starting the car.

Okay, thanks.