[RESOLVED] Car died, Now won't start

[92-eagle-talon]

Ok, So I was driving along and everything was fine. I'm coming up to a 4 way stop and at about 30 or 40 mph, I throw it in neutral and it dies. Now when I try to start it the starter just whirrs and nothing... It sounds like the starter is working, but the motor is not turning over. This is a 92 talon 4g63 with rebuilt head and new timing belt. I'm at a loss and hoping the motor is not locked up. It has sufficient oil, So I don't know what it could be.
Please help.

 

[Avionixx]

So all you hear is the starter whirring? Does the RPM needle on the tachometer jump when you're cranking or does it stay at 0?

 

[twoTSis]

Same thing happened to my friend in a 2g... it turned out that a part of the cam sensor broke so it wasn't holding on right...a zip tie fixed it until we had time to get to the junkyard.

 

[92-eagle-talon]

Ok, So the motor does in fact turnover.(thank god!!! ) What we have here is a regular no start problem. How loud are the fuel pumps on these cars ? When I turn the key over I don't hear the fuel pump kick in. Oh, Avionixx, the tach stays at zero when trying to start.

 

[kenamond]

Ok, So the motor does in fact turnover.(thank god!!! ) What we have here is a regular no start problem. How loud are the fuel pumps on these cars ? When I turn the key over I don't hear the fuel pump kick in. Oh, Avionixx, the tach stays at zero when trying to start.

I'm not too knowledgeable with the N/T cars, but the 1g and 2g turbo car fuel pumps do not kick on unless you are cranking the motor (need pulses from either the crank or cam sensor, forget which). If you go to the "on" position, it won't turn on. Maybe it's different for a 1g N/T.

There's a tech article for no-start troubleshooting, and a Haynes/Chilton manual also has troubleshooting. You need spark, air, fuel, and you need the spark at the right time.

Is the check engine light on? If so, read the code.

 

[slugsgomoo]

mine had similar symptoms when the ecu caps finally went completely- It's fairly simple to pull the ecu and see if the caps leaked, and if it smells like fish.

 

[92-eagle-talon]

Ok, I can hear the fuel pump, It kicks in when cranking on the engine. Is the check engine light supposed to go off after clicking the key over ? I'm going to pull the ecu and check it out. I'll take a picture and post it. Ok, check engine light comes on and goes off when the key is clicked over, But the orange light to the right of it (right beside it) stays on along with the oil light and battery light. This is with the key in the "2" position. What is that light ? I'll post pics.

 

[92-eagle-talon]

When cranking on the engine, are the cams supposed to turn ? When I crank on it the belt that drives the alternator, power steering and water pump turns, but the cams and timing belt do not. Is that the way it's supposed to be ?

 

[highboostintsi]

When cranking on the engine, are the cams supposed to turn ? When I crank on it the belt that drives the alternator, power steering and water pump turns, but the cams and timing belt do not. Is that the way it's supposed to be ?

when your cranking the motor the cam gears should be turning

 

[dsmmack]

yes when cranking the cams should be turning...if they are not could be a couple things....but sounds like the teeth may be gone on your timing belt....it may have gotten a new timing belt, but maybe the balance shaft belt was not done, they like to break and get caught in the timing belt and make amess of things....i'd say pull the timing belt cover off and check it all out!

 

[92-eagle-talon]

I pulled the top timing belt cover and the teeth look fine. I have yet to pull the lower cover.
Why would the accesory drive belt turn and the timing belt not turn ? How can that happen ? Could this be from the timing belt being misadjusted a tooth ? The guy I bought it from had told me he thought the belt was off a tooth and needed to be adjusted. The car use to die when coming to a stop and put in neutral, However I "fixed" that prblem by raising the idle with the screw on the throttle body. Also I think it may have actually been off a tooth because my buddy has an eclipse with the 1.8 liter engine and said his car was faster than mine. He said my car should have way more power. If the belt was off a tooth would driving it like that do really bad damage ? Please help !!! I need my car running.

 

[kenamond]

I pulled the top timing belt cover and the teeth look fine. I have yet to pull the lower cover.
Why would the accesory drive belt turn and the timing belt not turn ? How can that happen ? Could this be from the timing belt being misadjusted a tooth ? The guy I bought it from had told me he thought the belt was off a tooth and needed to be adjusted. The car use to die when coming to a stop and put in neutral, However I "fixed" that prblem by raising the idle with the screw on the throttle body. Also I think it may have actually been off a tooth because my buddy has an eclipse with the 1.8 liter engine and said his car was faster than mine. He said my car should have way more power. If the belt was off a tooth would driving it like that do really bad damage ? Please help !!! I need my car running.

The harmonic balancer drives both accessory belts and is bolted to the sprocket that drives the timing belt. The sprocket is bolted to the end of the crankshaft. Since the accessory belts are turning, the sprocket is turning, and the crank is turning, and the pistons are going up and down. This doesn't look too good to me. If the timing belt is not turning, either the timing belt is broken or the teeth on the belt are gone at the crank sproket. I don't know about the N/T motors, but since they're probably higher compression, you probably have even less valve clearance than turbo pistons/rods. I don't see how you don't have bent valves already. I've just learned this stuff over time and have no first-hand-experience (thank God), so maybe I'm wrong. Is the t-belt tight on the cam gears? If you tug on it, what happens? If it comes off in your hand, you have your answer. If not, pull the lower cover off and see what that looks like.

 

[Defiant]

I pulled the top timing belt cover and the teeth look fine. I have yet to pull the lower cover.
Why would the accesory drive belt turn and the timing belt not turn ? How can that happen ?

The crank sprocket chewed the teeth off that part of the timing belt. You have bent valves.

 

[93_tsi_fwd]

exactly the same thing happend to my car. its the timing belt.

expect it to look like this. The crank is turning but not the top end.

+1 for the bent valves

 

[92-eagle-talon]

!!!! So, I guess what I'm looking at here is replacing the cylinder head and a timing belt kit ?

 

[Avionixx]

The cylinder head will be fine; just bring it to a machine shop with your replacement valves and have them do the work.

 

[cavillac]

yep, your valves are bent, I hear when valves go on these motors they usually break the valve guides too, anyone know of this?

I got my T/Belt-balanceshaft belt done on my 1g before this happened and wasnt as lucky on my 2g.. the balance belt broke and took out my lower crank sensor, I was lucky in the fact that it didnt take out my t-belt like yours did.

 

[92-eagle-talon]

I pulled on the timing belt and it doesn't come off. So I guess the teeth got shaved off at the crank sprocket but the belt did not completely break . I still need to pull the lower timing belt cover and see.

Should I pull the head, or just replace the timing belt and balance shaft belt ? being that the head has already been rebuilt once, Should I just have the valves replaced ? Or, should I just get a head at the J/Y ? When I do the timing belt, would it be better to do a balance shaft elimination kit ?

 

[93_tsi_fwd]

Should I pull the head, or just replace the timing belt and balance shaft belt ? being that the head has already been rebuilt once, Should I just have the valves replaced ? Or, should I just get a head at the J/Y ? When I do the timing belt, would it be better to do a balance shaft elimination kit ?

before you take out the cyl. head, Take out your valve cover and check the rollers if there loose. that means thats the valves that got bent. If no rockers are moving, put the B/S belt and Tbelt on (without the accesory belts) then do a compression test.

When doing the balance shaft elimination, its easier to put the eliminator kit when the motor is out of the car.

 

[bastarddsm]

I had the exact same thing happen to me.. however i was lucky enough that i did not bend valves. so hopefully you did not either.

 

[92-eagle-talon]

So I pulled the lower timing belt cover to find that the timing belt was chewed up right at the crankshaft sprocket. Also, all the teeth on the balance shaft belt are shaved off, however the balance shaft belt is not broken. What happened ? Could this be from the timing belt being off a tooth ? Or is this caused from tensioner failure ? What are the odds of the valves being bent ? I pulled the valve cover and checked the rolers, none of them seem to be loose. Could I be so lucky to not have bent valves ?

 

[Defiant]

So I pulled the lower timing belt cover to find that the timing belt was chewed up right at the crankshaft sprocket.

Hm. Where did I read about that. Oh, it was Post #13, above.

Also, all the teeth on the balance shaft belt are shaved off, however the balance shaft belt is not broken. What happened ?

We could only guess. Probably a lost tooth from the balance shaft belt dropped into the crank sprocket, gave the crank sprocket enough of a grab to eat its teeth, or something else.

Could this be from the timing belt being off a tooth ?

Not likely.

Or is this caused from tensioner failure ?

"Maybe."

What are the odds of the valves being bent ?

What was it saying in Post #13?

I pulled the valve cover and checked the rolers, none of them seem to be loose. Could I be so lucky to not have bent valves ?

"Maybe." But probably not. Your choice, do you want to bet on doing the belt job twice?