piston ring help.

[pj91gsx]

My brother and I installed new piston rings on the pistons for a motor we are rebuilding. We faced the piston rings in the direction that they need to face. We also made sure that the 2nd piston ring was right side up. I made sure that my two pistons had there 1st ring right side up. but my brother has doesn't know if his two pistons had the 1st ring right side up. He told me this after I torched the head down and already put the motor in time. Will it be ok? Will a compression test tell me if two of the pistons have rings up side down?

 

[tqmx1]

Man if you have not fired the engine take the head and pan off and pull the pistons and check.

Doing it before you run it you can reuse all your gaskets and you will just be out a little bit of time. As the old saying goes (Penny wise pound foolish)

Or you can roll the dice and pray he did it right.

 

[pj91gsx]

I dont know what I am going to do. I sprayed copper coat on the head gasket before i put it on. I use new but stock head bolts.

what would be the consequence if the top rings on two pistons are upside down

 

[absolute_DSM]

Just because you torqued the head bolts and copper sprayed the gasket doesnt mean you cant pull the head. Chances are the bolts didnt even stretch. (EDIT - what are your plans for the car if youre only running stock head bolts?)

The only other way of even trying to do this without removing the head would be to pull the pistons from the bottom, but I dont see that happening.

Just pull it and dont let your brother touch the car anymore.

 

[pj91gsx]

I am building the motor for a friend of mine. I just needed to build it right once. I did use stock head bolts but also I used a 4 ply cosmetic head gasket. Its not possible to pull pistons out from the bottom of the motor. And how would you get the pistons back in if it was possible?

before i take the head back off. lets go over how the piston rings go. correct me if im wrong. starting from bottom to top of the piston. oil spacers' gaps are opposite of the arrow pointing to the t belt. the oil scraper is pointed left corner on the side of the arrow. ( looking at the arrow. the 2nd ring is on the right side corner beside the arrow. and the 1st ring is in the opposite corner of that. and for 1 and 2 piston rings the top is the flat side ( i think) Ill look in the book when i get out there

 

[BUCK]

REALLY need to find the PIC of the Ring orientations, it's here somewhere - IMO a Compression test won't tell you anything - & IMO your BROTHER owes you & your friend a NEW Head Gasket - I'm assuming you are reusing 6 BOLT Head Bolts, if not your Brother owes you some Head Bolts TOO~! There;s just NO excuse for his mistake.

 

[pj91gsx]

ok. i took the head off. a ply of the head gasket came off. It is a 4 ply. Also. I was wiping a piston off and a oil spacer ring broke in half. tomorrow I go back to school and I will go look in the trash can to see if I can find one of my oil spacer rings from a previous piston I had. I think those rings were new but I threw them away just because I didnt know there history.

 

[BUCK]

Good job jerking the Head back off - Hell that Oil Ring coulda cracked when installed so you've already been rewarded by the DSM gods for doing the right thing ~!

 

[pj91gsx]

well. I kinda left out some stuff. When I was taking out the 1st piston pushed it a little and it fell ring on to the floor. I was lucky it didn't ding in it. I think I broke the oil ring just from wiping the dirt off. the oil ring must of caught the rag. would it be ok to reuse my gasket?

 

[BUCK]

I would ABSOLUTELY, POSITIVELY NOT reuse that Head Gasket - period - In 2 seconds someone will Post here about how it's OK to reuse it, yadda, yadda... but that Poster won't be the poor Bastard tearing the Front Case back down again when the Head Gasket leaks.

 

[pj91gsx]

its a metal head gasket. supposed to be reusable. I didnt even use it

 

[BUCK]

would it be ok to reuse my gasket?

its a metal head gasket. supposed to be reusable. I didnt even use it

I'm confused - & if you did a Search on Cometic & Metal Head Gaskets the best I can tell the vast MAJORITY leak anyway so>>>>>>>>>>> WTF?

 

[absolute_DSM]

Is it really a good idea to spray a MLS gasket?

 

[pj91gsx]

I am building this engine. it hasnt got off the engine stand. the head gasket is a 4 ply. strangely when I took it off a ply was stuck to the block and 3 ply were stuck to the head. i dont know how it is suposed to be a attached. but there arent any bends in the gasket.

for another subject. the smooth side of the top piston rings face down right? and the edge side is top

ill be back. im going to go work with my motor.

 

[absolute_DSM]

You need to talk to the piston ring manufacturer for ring orientation. Some are different than others.

And I dont see the point of using a MLS head gasket with stock head studs. The head is going to lift before the gasket even blows.

 

[pj91gsx]

just so it will last longer. i guess. idk. i paid 65 for the headgasket on ebay. but its 4 ply cosmetic

 

[absolute_DSM]

Im assuming you mean Cometic. With stock head studs, you could have used a stock Mits head gasket. Just saying...

 

[BUCK]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/185236-head-removal-mini-engine-rebuild.html

This & SEVERAL other good Articles in Tech Section.

 

[pj91gsx]

ok. I got the pistons out and I broke another oil ring during installation. piston ring compressor problems. Anyway. I broke a total of 2 oil rings. but I did find that one compression ring was on upside down. Idk if it even matters though. Im just going to finish putting the thing together now. I hope I wont have any more problems. thanks you guys for the help. btw I asked on here what head gasket I should go with and everyone said cosmetic and stuff like that. I just need this motor to be as reliable as possible. The motor is fully balanced with 2g pistons on 1g rods. Its a 6 bolt.

 

[BUCK]

Put me down as a vote against the Cometic if "reliable as possible" is your priority.

 

[pj91gsx]

why are you against 4 ply cometic?

 

[BUCK]

why are you against 4 ply cosmetic?

As ANY Search re: Cometic - & EXPERT authority have already Posted: Comeitc & Reliability do NOT mesh - Had you machined the Block - Machined the Head - Had your Priority been Ultra performance instead of reliabiity then YEAH a buncha knowleable peeps would be on board with a Cometic Head Gasket - NOT to be malicicious or anything but DUDE the fact your are struggling with RING orientation coupled with the fact you even had to ASK about a Cometic Head Gasket means you don't know what you are looking at - Do us AND your buddy a favor & go with the Mitsu H/G.

 

[pj91gsx]

the block has been decked honed and the head has be shaved. btw me and my brother put the rings on according to the manual instead of the box. I wouldn't call that struggling. I asked around about head gaskets because I wanted to know which kind people recommend.