massive electrical problem?

[Blinder666]

Ok guys (this is kinda long) I hope someone can help with this or knows something I haven't checked. My parking lights absolutely will not shut off. Throughout this winter whenever I turned the key to on they would come on and stay on while the car was running. It was not a big problem as the headlights still came on when i switched them to on and I didn't smell the usual burning wire smell from anything like a short. I was going to track the prob down when it started getting warmer outside but the problem went away until last week. Last week it rained and then snowed pretty bad and one night the parking lights came on by themselves while i was in my house.

Now for the extremely funny part. I started the car to charge the battery a little bit since i did not know how long the parking lights were on for. I could not get the parking lights to turn off so i figured i would disconnect the battery until i could figure it out but when i went to turn of the car it would not shut off. I could even remove the key and the car still ran. First thought was the ignition switch not disengaging but earlier i removed the whole switch from the car and it would still run. I removed all of the fuses and none of them seem to be a part of the parking light system as i can not do anything to get them to shut off. I even pulled out the whole switch on the column and unplugged everything to no avail. Obviously whatever has them on is what keeps the car running if started but i can not find any exposed wires touching each other and all of the underdash wiring is very clean. No hack jobs for aftermarket accesories or anything. If anyone knows of this problem or has any ideas for me to check please help. I am out of ideas.

 

[luv2rallye]

For parking lights you have a wire shorting or a stuck on taillight relay. For ignition you have a wire shorting. Unbolt the engine fusebox and look at the wire mass underneath for wires shorting to each other which is usually this problem.

 

[Blinder666]

that is next on the list but I pulled every relay i could find under hood and inside and nothing shut them off. The only thing I thought of was that the short was in the wires completely eleminating a relay. The only way to shut off the car is to pull the engine relay under the hood. Thx for the reply. I am gonna do some more looking next chance I get. I hate electrical problems hehe.

 

[toybreaker]

Make absolutely sure you don't have a sleeping turbo timer/alarm/remote start system.

If you actually unplugged the ignition switch, and it continued to run, that sounds like a dormant alarm/remote start module that's having some second thoughts about staying dormant, or a turbo timer that's lost it's mind. Having large temperature or battery voltage fluctuations can sometimes wake these sleeping gremlins.

Look carefully at the wires in the ignition harness where they dissapear into the main harness loom. If you see any splices/tampering/electical tape on the loom, you should investigate it more thoroughly.

In addition, many alarm/turbo timer installs use a t-type harness plugged into the factory harness. This makes everything look stock, when in fact, the ignition harness is making a detour down the rabbit hole.

Many times, cars are modified by the previous owner, and then some, or all of the mods are removed. All the subsequent owners get to deal with the ramifications of dormant aftermarket alarms, twisted together wires where the afc was connected, etc..

As was already mentioned, a stuck tailight relay can hang the parking lite circuit on, but, it's also possible somebody did a little creative wiring for an after market gauge installation, and when the gauge was yoked, the wires were just left twisted into a mess of electrical tape, wire nuts, and butt connectors. (Hint, pull the drivers side a-pillar, and see if there's any floaters...)

+1 on looking under the engine compartment fuse box for chaffing/corrosion/issues.

There is no ignition relay. If the ignition stays on, it's possible there's a suprise accessory awaiting discovery in the deep, dark reccesses of the dash somewhere.

I would pull all the lower dash panels, and look closely at everything, especially on the drivers side. Most installers are lazy, and the majority of their installs will be on the drivers side. Some of the components may be tucked way up under there, but they'll be visible if you really look for them. Look carefully for any harness runs that don't match the factory style tape or loom configuration. Also, inspect the area around the interior fuse box carefully, as many people will tap into the harnesses there as well. And, pull the radio, and center console side panels. There may be something lurking there.

One last thing I've seen is a bad wiring job on the fuel pump wire upgrade. The wires were just wadded together, and the relay loose. A year later, and the relay had migrated to a new, more confined position, (WTF ) and the positive and ignition wires were touching on the back of the relay. This would back-power the ignition thru the wire back to the key.

Good luck, and please let us know what you find!

 

[Blinder666]

Well I have been on a week long break with a really infected wisdom tooth so no further inspections this past week unfortunately.

I was kinda thinking the same thing about the turbotimer or alarm setup Toybreaker. Only problem is when I first got the car a little over a year ago I went through it pretty good before I put it on the road. I needed a new tranny when I bought it so it sat for a little over a month. While it did I did a lot of cleaning and searching around inside to find out what the 2 previous owners could have done to it.

One thing I did have to remove and replace was the dimmer switch for the dash lights. At one point someone had the a-pillar gauge setup and tapped into the wires from that switch to power the gauge lights. Those wires were just left there in a mess like you suggested but I removed them last year and fixed that wiring mess and also replaced that switch cause it seemed to have burnt it out.

One kinda dumb question before I get into pulling the dash apart again. Where is the factory alarm controlled from? Is it in the same area as the ecu or somewhere else? I replaced the radio when I got the car aswell and when I was in there I did not notice anything bugged up.

I will hopefully get to start looking again soon and I will make sure to check more thoroughly for a timer or alarm. Thanks for your help.

 

[Blinder666]

Ok guys I finally tracked down the problem. It was not anything to do with the factory alarm, the ignition being hacked for turbo timer, or any aftermarket alarm install/rip out.

The wire running from the fuse box inside the car to the fuse box under the hood for the parking lamps was completely burnt through. For whatever reason it never blew either fuse. It also was sitting right next to the main power wire as it ran through the whole harness. I don't know what caused it but needless to say it grounded out against something at one point along its path which IMO is what caused it to burn through completely and it eventually melted into the main power wire. This would be why in the beginning the parking lights would stay on when it was really wet out but I could still drive the car fine (e.g starting and shutting off fine).

It eventually must have burnt all the way through the main power wire and that is what was keeping the car running after I started it and keeping the car running when I tried to shut it off. It was acting like a bridge since the main power wire is always live. When the key isn't on the power isn't supplied to anything because the key essentially activates it. The lights stayed on because of the bridged connection and made the power wire live at the same time.

Amazingly enough such a little gauge wire held up to the main power being shunted through it. I cut the wire at both ends and ran a new one through the passenger side and viola no more problems. I also repaired the power wire in all the places I could find that it was exposed so it doesn't burn into any other wires creating more headaches. Thank you guys that had suggestions for me. They really did help even though it was something else. Car runs like it should. Now I just have to put the car back together and she will be back on the road. I am just waiting for the next problem to come up but that is the fun of owning a DSM right hehe .