Anti-lock malfunction? Help!!

[delta448]

Well it finally happened. The Talon left me stranded for the first time.

I pulled out and started up the little hill by my house and the car began bucking wildly. The anti-lock brake light came on and there was a sharp clicking noise coming from the ECU area about every 3 seconds. I got to the top of the hill and stopped at the stop sign and the engine died. It wouldn't restart so I walked down the hill and got my wife's car. I drove up, jumped it and it started right up.

As soon as I began moving though, the light came back on and the car started to buck. It felt like the brakes were being applied sharply every few seconds. I get to the bottom of the hill and the car dies at the stoplight. Try jumping again, unsuccessfully. No clicking of the starter or anything. Car is completely silent.

Is there a way to bypass the antilock system to see if that's my problem? Anybody know what I should check or replace? Is the antilock system to blame, or is the problem elsewhere? I really need help on this one.

 

[delta448]

Is there any possibility that the antilock system is shorting out and draining the battery?

 

[Wpgdsm]

Try pulling the ABS fuse, that cuts power to the ABS pump,so it shouldn't be working at all. You will be stuck with normal brakes. As for the motor, is it stuck in a compression stroke? This happened to me, and no amount of boosting would help. I manualy turned the motor over by hand to the next stroke and it fired up. If you are getting no juice to the starter check your fuses back to the ignition. Do you have an alarm system, if so it will kill the ignition if it doesn't get enough voltage. Did you use a good set off heavey gauge jumper cables, you could have burnt the ones you used if they were trying to push to many amps. I've seen this happen alot, small cables will barely let 10 volts through and will smoke and burn the first time you use them. Thats all I can think off, good luck.

 

[delta448]

I'll try pulling the fuse. I don't think the motor is stuck in compression since it seems to fire up and idle fine until it starts moving. The alarm system is the factory alarm, the battery may be undercharged or the alternator going out... not sure about that yet. The starter doesn't even click like it's trying half the time, then after it sits for a while and gets a good strong jump it fires right up like normal. Jumper cables are sturdy and practically brand new.

I did find that the fuseholder on one of my amp power leads has busted and I'm wondering if it might have shorted out the battery enough to drain it. I have since removed all the power wires for the stereo from the battery. I'm at work right now but I'll post again after I get home and troubleshoot some more.

 

[spinninfwdlaser]

Sounds to me like your EBCM, my turbo-tbird did the same thing untill I fixed it. Your EBCM (electronic brake control module) may be the cause.

 

[delta448]

So I have been working on the problem and studying schematics for the past couple of hours. All the fuses and fusable links for the charging system and ABS are intact. I tried pulling the main 50A ABS fuse and jump starting again. While running without that fuse, the car stopped bucking -but I didn't put it under any significant load and just lugged it along in low rpms in 1st gear. I thought maybe I was wrong before about it bucking with the clutch in, so I returned the fuse to the box and the car is now only bucking once it is under a light load. As soon as I blip on the throttle while under any load at all, the engine starts stalling and bucking until it is brought back under ~3500 rpms.

I'm now thinking that I have an issue with either the battery or alternator. Especially after reading the above post about the alarm system disabling the ignition if voltage is low. The posts of my battery over the last week or so have accumulated a lot of corrosion. There is the greenish flakey stuff on the positive and the bright white flakey stuff all over the negative post. The car still refuses to start under its own power and no amount of idling or reving the engine seems to make a difference.

I'm going to go fork out the cash for a new battery and try that, unless someone here has another idea.

 

[delta448]

Update: The battery was checked, is good and was completely charged at advance auto last night. The car still will not start unless it is jumped. WTF

I pulled both ABS fuses, thinking that might be the issue and when I attempted to start, there was a rapid clicking from the ECU area, but still not even a lame attempt from the starter. Completely silent under the hood. Anybody have a guess?

 

[luv2rallye]

With car off turn on headlights hi beam and measure battery voltage. Should be at least 12V or battery is highly suspect to be bad. Turn off headlights and start car. Battery voltage now should be over 14V. or alternator is highly suspect to be bad. For ABS trouble codes see: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197283.

 

[Wpgdsm]

If you have to keep jumping even with a fully charged battery check how many amps the starter is pulling. My friend ran into this proplem with his race car. We thought the motor was locked, had a good battery and alt but would only turn over if jumped. Ended up the starter was pulling 3 times as many amps to turn as it should have. It's a real pain to get it out but get you're starter checked, the solinoid may be no good or its just bunt out. If the stater is pulling to many amps it will kill even a fresh battery.

 

[Defiant]

Are your grounds in good shape?

 

[delta448]

I have had the car on jackstands for the last 3 days but I've only had about 3-4 hours total to get my hands dirty checking stuff. It really sucks having my wife drop me off and pick me up every time I go to work(40hr/wk), the classroom(24hr/wk) or clinicals(16hr/wk).

Here's what I know so far:

The car was able to start -when jumped- until last night, when it refused to start at all. When running; it would bog, misfire, choke down and flicker out everytime there was any significant load placed on the engine, or after any load unless I was able to keep the rpms between 1500-3000 with the throttle. When I hit the ignition, the dash lights come on and sometimes immediately go out, and the car is silent. (bad switch?) Other times the lights stay on and I get the sound of a solenoid clicking in and out rapidly from the ECU/EBCU area. All fuses are good, battery terminals clean and tight, and there are no visual signs yet of issues with the main power cables. -I'll be using the multimeter I bought last night the next time I launch an assault on the vehicle. I did find a very short (about 8 inch) ground wire connected to the firewall by the brake resevoir, that is unconnected on the other end. (?) -This is the only wiring I have found so far that is questionable.

My next step is going to be digging through all the wiring and hoses, pulling the starter off the back side and testing it, unless anyone can give me some better idea of what is going on here.

 

[laynbdyon20s]

My S-10 used to act crazy like that too, lights would flicker and I'd hear a clicking sound coming from under my dash. It was the ECU.

 

[delta448]

With car off turn on headlights hi beam and measure battery voltage. Should be at least 12V or battery is highly suspect to be bad. Turn off headlights and start car. Battery voltage now should be over 14V. or alternator is highly suspect to be bad. For ABS trouble codes see: http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197283.

The battery, battery tray/mount, UICP and shift cable bracket are all out of the car right now in order to access the starter bolts.
Battery reads a full 24V across the termnals, I know that doesn't tell much without a load, but since I get an average of about 6 hours a week of "free time / car fixing time", all that stuff isn't going back in until I can verify the starter is good.

By the way, I figured out which 4 bolts you meant in the older thread about the starter.

Also, I've checked for continuity between starter power and ground leads and checked resistance between ground and grounding cables.

 

[luv2rallye]

Also, I've checked for continuity between starter power and ground leads and checked resistance between ground and grounding cables.

Measuring the voltage at the starter (+ lead on large postive starter terminal, - lead on starter casing or mounting bolt) while cranking is a better starter and starter cable test (should be more than 10.0V). If less than 10.0V then move test leads one at a time, back to battery terminals (and then to battery posts) while cranking to see if there is a voltage drop. Even 0.1 ohm resistance in the cables or connections will cause the starter to not operate correctly. Voltage drops are far easier to measure than a tiny resistance (which many meters can't measure accurately or at all). Also you are measuring under actual operating conditions where you aren't with resistance.

If cables are suspect there's an even easier way to test them. Connect a battery jumper cable from battery positive post to starter positive post (careful not to touch any metal). If it now cranks ok, your positive cable/connection is bad. If not, connect a battery jumper cable from battery negative post to engine block (or starter mounting bolt). If it now cranks ok, your negative cable/connection is bad. If it still doesn't crank ok but it tries to (solenoid trys to engage or it turns very slowly), either your battery or starter is bad. If it doesn't even click you have a problem with the starting circuit (start switch, relay, fuse, wiring) or it can still be the starter itself (need to see if 12V is at the starter to tell which).

 

[delta448]

So today I'm reassembling everything and I find this plug that is hanging loose... anybody know where it is supposed to go?

 

[drewvr4]

is that connected in with the coolant temp sensor, and o2 sensor in a little bundle?

 

[delta448]

Yes it is in that same bundle. It looks like the same type of connector as is on the TPS.

 

[drewvr4]

someone correct me if i miss one, but i think in that bundle is

coolant temp sensor
coolant sensor
o2 sensor

i looked at my car and didnt see anything that looks like that, must be something related to a 1g.

 

[delta448]

Yeah I couldn't find anything missing a plug...

But anyways on another note, the car is now running. Tore the starter out, it tested fine by the way, but the problem was in the main power wire to the starter, it had corroded almost into two pieces. I was very pissed at myself when I found it, especially after the struggle I had with the starter, and the fact that I had already checked the wire once and not found anything.

Much thanks to all who replied. I do appreciate the help fellas.

 

[95AWD6Bolt]

This same thing hapenned to me when I jumped my 2g a few months ago. I pulled out and the abs light came on and my car was moving but bucking and there was a ticking sound. However, for me, i just parked turned the car off, waited five mins then restarted it let it run for five mins and it was fine.

 

[Talontsi150]

That connects to the speed-o sensor. Correct me if i'm wrong, Try moving the car, your speed should not show, until you hook that back up.

 

[luv2rallye]

That connects to the speed-o sensor. Correct me if i'm wrong, Try moving the car, your speed should not show, until you hook that back up.

Yep - a 3 pin connector with yellow, black, and black/white wires. Goes down on tranny just front of the rear motor mount. You disconnected it when you removed the starter.

 

[delta448]

Thanks guys, I figured that out today when I took it across town for the first time since getting the car running. I knew immediately what it was when I noticed the speedo was on zero in 3rd gear.

 

[VergeTSi]

This is off the subject but have you guys tried taking out the starter from underneath the car? I found out when i was taking out my intake mani and the starter was right there. I can put both my hands up there, just had to take out the downpipe and it was pretty easy.