Bad turbo causes all these problems?

[Fayt]

Alright, my old motor blew up. So, I had a shop do a 6 bolt swap. New motor, new trans, new fidanza flywheel and act clutch... it still has a few problems. And I'm pretty sure its all the turbo.

• Bad acceleration. It has NO POWER at all. Like, 1st gear takes a good 4 seconds to go through all the RPMs when at WOT.
• Can't go above 60mph. Even in 3rd gear, it won't pull anymore. Plus, there is a metal noise from the motor when I give it gas.
• Stuttering/sputtering when accelerating. Even at WOT it'll sputter a LOT and have no power.
• I can hear backfiring when at idle and under load.
• Plus, I can move the turbine wheel up and down about 1/4", then in and out about 1/2".

It's not a boost leak, I already did that test and it shower perfect compression across the cylinders. The motor is a strong 6 bolt, rebuilt by buschur.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Ivoryblade/P4060002.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/Ivoryblade/P4060003.jpg
Also, I have pictures of a sensor I can't keep the hose on. I'm not sure which sensor it is, or what it does. There is a very small nipple (about 1/8") and the hose gets blown off instantly. I've tried the smallest c-clamp, but won't work. It still blows off.

Any help? It's been over 7 months since I've had my car so I want this getting fixed ASAP!

 

[95GSXCO]

the sensor is the MDP. i not sure about the six bolt motor but on the 7 bolt 2g it should be on top of the intake manifold. as for that being your problem i dont think that is it. it could have a little to with it put. sounds almost like its somthing dealing with the ingition. i would make sure there are no wires brunt or unhooked.

 

[Fayt]

All wires are fine and hooked up. I'm still convinced its the turbo. Anybody else know?

MDP sensor? What does that do? I thought it was the MAP sensor.

 

[ereckerdeet]

that's an insane amount of shaft play!! definately a blown turbo. I would replace it and that should clear up most of your problems, if not we can work from there. Definately replace the turbo first. Do you have any logging??

 

[Fayt]

Not yet. I just contacted a guy here about his T-25 w/32k miles for $100 so, hopefully I can get that.

No logging yet, haven't gotten around to it. Just need the software, already have a laptop.

 

[Fayt]

Alright, new turbo didn't clear any of the symptoms up.

 

[wolf20043]

As far as the sensor, it should be mounted on the intake mani to read air pressure, but with the 6 bolt swap it looks as thought you have a 1g intake that will not have the mounting point for it. That nipple is very small and I do not know if any hose clamp will hold it. You can try to just unplug it and see if that helps, it dose on some of the cars I have done.

 

[1gcrazy]

I just dont see how you can't keep the hose on. I just thought up about 6 different ways to keep that thing on. Here... try these

1. Put some RTV silicone sealant around the bottom of the nipple and see if after it dry's if it keeps it on.

2. scuff up the nipple with some sandpaper so the hose has something to bite.

3. spray some carb cleaner on the inside of the hose so it literally feels sticky and see if that holds.

4. Take the hose and put a zip tie about a quarter of an inch away from the nipple and slip two ties in when you tighten that down. THEN take each one of those ties and tie it to the holes where apparently screws would go. I'll draw a picture:

5. Use a sanding bit on your dremel tool and sand down just a LITTLE of the base of the nipple and use a piece of wire and put it around the base of the nipple with the hose on and twist the wire like a loaf of bread.

6. Combine all of these things and i guarentee you if you do all of these that sucker will stay on.

About your acceleration problems i would test the MAF. I'm not sure about this ever going bad but i left my intake hose off my turbo once and it ran pretty close to what you're describing.
Another thing to consider: make sure you're injectors are clean. Even though the engines in good condition the old owner may have had really really bad gas.
Since it's backfiring chances are its either your air or fuel. Either the cars reading too much air thus making the injector fire more fuel to compensate or the injectors are firing at the wrong time.
Also check the ECU. Since your'e running a six bolt you should have the 1g ecu. Check the caps. Make sure they aren't leaking.
I'm sure i'll come up with smore insight. Let me know if you've checked any of these.

 

[Fayt]

Well, I'm using a 2g ECU that was rewired (the way that RRE says to splice the wires). So, not sure if that would have anything to do with it. My MAF is fine, I'll check to see if my injectors are bad today.

As for that nipple, I'm going to try the zip tie one at least temporarily. Once I get it running better, I'm going to tap the intake mani and actually put it in there, where it should be.

How could I fix the injectors firing at the wrong time? Would I need a 1g ECU?

 

[92 GSR-4]

fayt,

Check the installation of the 6-bolt electrical. This most likely sounds like ignition/timing problems due to wiring. Check all your connectors, especially the MAS, Power trans., coilpack, and CAS. Look for damage/loose plug. The turbo sounded like it was on it's way out, do you still hear a metallic sound when you rev it? I would hope that the metallic sound was coming from the turbo you swapped out.

Other than that, if everything is setup correctly, I would verify that the timing and idle are baselined, and check for vacume/boost leaks. Let us know how you do, hope this helps!

Use a zip tie on the map sensor, no need to tap the intake man.

 

[FlatBlackTerror]

Few things, for teh map sensor, i do believe dsm parts sells an adapter for the 2g MAP on teh 6 bolt swaps. Also, check/adjust your TPS, some of those symptoms can be linked to that, the voltages should be .45 at no throttle and 4.5 at WOT, but i could be wrong, been awhile since ive adjusted one. Also, make sure there arent any boost leaks or vaccum leaks. Thats all i can think of right now, good luck.

 

[TRBOBLU]

You do not need the MDP sensor for your car to run right. If you did not change the injector firing like RRE says to do the difference in driveability is very subtle. It would not cause your car to act like it is doing. Are you getting a CE light? Check the wiring for the CAS is all I can say. That is really the only wiring needed for this swap and if it is somehow messed up then the shop should not be working on cars. I had similar symptoms when I installed my 6 bolt. Turned out that whenever my car threw the CE light which was like every 80 miles it was the random missfire code. Whenever the light came on my ECU would stop sending fuel to the #1 cylinder and my car would run very poorly on 3 cylinders and would not go over 55mph. It had bad sputtering ect. Post some more info. if you can.

 

[Fayt]

The shop SAID they changed it... but I've had problems with them during this swap. I'm gonna do a little bit of searching, and see how it is SUPPOSED to be wired, then get back to you.

There are no vaccum or boost leaks, I've tested that already. The motor is strong as all hell.

The idle however is very abnormal. It will start up right away, no problem. But, will vary between 600 and 1500 by itself. Still ignition related I suppose.

Well... I'm gonna print out the wiring and figure out where the CAS sensor is, and go at it tomorrow. Thanks for the help guys, I'll keep you in touch. If you'd like pictures or any more info, just ask.

 

[92 GSR-4]

It will start up right away, no problem. But, will vary between 600 and 1500 by itself. Still ignition related I suppose.

Are you describing idle surge?

 

[Fayt]

I'm not sure, that's just some more symptoms. It will start up fine, one or two cranks, then the RPM will go up and down. So yea, I guess that's idle surge.

About the CAS.... I had my 6 bolt done by Buschur (had the modifications to be able to get dropped into a 2g with no problem) and they sold the shop a harness to skip the wiring I guess. I'm still going to make sure all the pins line up and such, but just through I'd throw that out there.

 

[92 GSR-4]

O.k. its good to have adapter harnesses. Make sure everything is connected correctly. It sounds to me like you are having normal issues that arise with a new engine install.

If I were you I would definately boost leak test it, baseline the timing and idle, and make sure the ISC is functioning correctly.

 

[brodiedehass]

I had a 1990 TSI that ran but had major loss of power. Come to find out the timing was off two teeth. Check your marks to see if they are perfect. My not be your problem but its an easy thing to check.

 

[Fayt]

Buschur did my timing belt job, the teeth are lined up perfectly.

My CAS is wired properly, so that isn't it. I checked RRE's diagrams and everything is wired PERFECTLY.

New spark plugs also, NGK6ES or something. The ones that are recommended for stock/mildly modified.

However, my spark plug wires are old ones. I'll get some new ones soon... suggestions?

I'm gonna change out my injectors... the ones in there are the ones from the six bolt motor. Thus, sitting in a junkyard for a while.

Another thing, my rear o2 (behind the cat, well... behind my straight pipe) is gone/broken. There is just a hole there. SOoOOo, I'll get a new o2 today and put it in. See what clears up.

 

[Fayt]

UPDATE!!!!

Car will turn over, rev up, and die. It will keep alive though if I rev it/give it gas. I can even drive it, as long as there is always gas being given (HOORAY POWERSHIFTING!!). Why is that?

Also, minor misfiring... I'll check it out in bout a week I get DSM link.

 

[92 GSR-4]

Sounds like a dying ECU. Pull it out and check for cap leaks. I bet thats it. Dave Mertz at DSMlink.com does the very best work repairing those ECU's, and for a great price....hell may as well get link put in while it's there....

 

[Fayt]

I'll pull it out today, and post a picture once its out. Hopefully thats not it, I dont have the $ to buy a new one yet.

 

[92 GSR-4]

A picture won't help. See if it has a funny smell. Look for residue from the leaking caps. Dave Mertz repairs the ECU's and while he's at it he can socket them as well. And he has VERY reasonable prices...less than $150 most times. Check your ECU and drop him a line.

 

[Fayt]

No leaking caps, it doesnt die on me anymore. I'm slowly dwindling down the problems... YAY!

So, I took it out for a quick spin around the block. Heres what I noticed.

*FIXED* My BISS screw was about 8 turns out!!! I tightened it down, then backed it out 3 turns. Idles pretty smooth between 700-800.
The idle is very erratic. It'll idle around 1500, after the BOV lets off, it'll drop to almost 350-500, then come up to 1200-1500.

The flywheel is making a whining noise when going forward. No noise when I'm reversing, only in drive. I know the flywheel can't be messed up, I just put a new fidanza 6 bolt in, new ACT 2600 clutch, and a new 12k mile transmission (shop stripped my gears by forgetting to put trans fluid in).

It still misfires, I can hear it. I'll see if DSM link fixes that problem.

Good news? No CEL's, my ECU is fine, all my couplers are staying on, and no leaking!

I'm going to put my boost guage in and see what boost I'm hitting. I gave it a quick pull through 1st gear, and it seemed to hesitate round 5k. Might be fuel cut, or the fact that my car sucks right now. We'll see when DSMLink comes to see what it shows.

*NEW* It seems to die on me when I go to neutral and brake. Example... going down the street it was fine, I slowed down to turn, put the car into neutral and it died. Turned right back on, drove it through a nearby parking lot, died when I came to a stop sign. Doesn't die in gear though, it seems the RPM's drop too low to sustain the car. I might try adjusting my idle a little higher.

Oh yea, I hear some boost leaks from near my intake manifold. I'm missing a couple line hookups too, such as my wastegate has a T-d off line, that connects to nothing. And my BOV (greddy type S) has no line connecting it to anything. I can't find the vacuum line that it's supposed to connect up to. Any insight is appreciated.

If I can't fix this w/DSM Link, I'm taking it to Buschur to have them do it.

 

[92 GSR-4]

No leaking caps, it doesnt die on me anymore. I'm slowly dwindling down the problems... YAY!

What fixed the problem?

So, I took it out for a quick spin around the block. Heres what I noticed.

*FIXED* My BISS screw was about 8 turns out!!! I tightened it down, then backed it out 3 turns. Idles pretty smooth between 700-800.

You still need to set *baseline* idle. This is done by putting the ECU into "idle set" mode and setting the baseline.

The idle is very erratic. It'll idle around 1500, after the BOV lets off, it'll drop to almost 350-500, then come up to 1200-1500.

This is probably because of one or more of these 3 reasons, your baseline idle is incorect, you have vacume leaks, or a bad ISC.

The flywheel is making a whining noise when going forward. No noise when I'm reversing, only in drive. I know the flywheel can't be messed up, I just put a new fidanza 6 bolt in, new ACT 2600 clutch, and a new 12k mile transmission (shop stripped my gears by forgetting to put trans fluid in).

Are you still using this transmission even after they ran it dry?!?

It still misfires, I can hear it. I'll see if DSM link fixes that problem.

I have heard of the mis-firing problem before. A little searching and you should be able to find the cause of this problem..it's specific to the 6-bolt swap into a 2G. DSMlink wil NOT fix any problems you are having becuase of incorrect baseline timing and idle settings, bad sensors, or anything else thats incorrect, like vac leaks. I think theres a few options that you can utilize in DSMlink that helps smooth out the 6-bolt quirks.

Good news? No CEL's, my ECU is fine, all my couplers are staying on, and no leaking!

Nice! I think your the first DSM guy I know of without leaks

it seemed to hesitate round 5k. Might be fuel cut, or the fact that my car sucks right now. We'll see when DSMLink comes to see what it shows.

I think this problem is one in the same with your problem at idle. I think the same thing is causing both of these. DSMlink is certainly a GREAT tool that will help you track these problems down...

*NEW* It seems to die on me when I go to neutral and brake. Example... going down the street it was fine, I slowed down to turn, put the car into neutral and it died. Turned right back on, drove it through a nearby parking lot, died when I came to a stop sign. Doesn't die in gear though, it seems the RPM's drop too low to sustain the car. I might try adjusting my idle a little higher.

Turning the idle up may just be a band-aid. You have got to have a problem with vacume leaks, ISC, baseline timing and idle, or the idle-shut switch is bad...check for all these!!

Oh yea, I hear some boost leaks from near my intake manifold. I'm missing a couple line hookups too, such as my wastegate has a T-d off line, that connects to nothing. And my BOV (greddy type S) has no line connecting it to anything. I can't find the vacuum line that it's supposed to connect up to. Any insight is appreciated.

There ya go, patch them and move on to the others.

If I can't fix this w/DSM Link, I'm taking it to Buschur to have them do it.

I think you can fix them yourself. You can make the choice of letting other people work on your car, or you can do it yourself. I have never been satisfied with ANYONE working on my car. For example, I took it to get an alignment...and they had to do it like 3 times. Nobody will do a better job than you. Good luck!

 

[Fayt]

Wow, thanks GSR-4.

Anyways, they put a new transmission in. They stripped my old one, so I got a new one free of charge. AFter that, I was done with letting them work on it.

I guess I just need to patch up all my boost leaks. I still hear one, but can't pinpoint it because of the motor running. I already orded a boost leak tester (from boostpros.net, had good reviews and was only $24).

I'm gonna get some hoses and hook up my other lines. I have one from my wastegate that is T-d off (went to the nipple on my old t25) that I'm gonna replace, then there are 2 from my BOV. One goes to the throttle body, while I'm not sure on the other one.

If I unplug my ISC could that fix some of the problems? Or should I replace it instead?

Thanks again 92 GSR-4, I'll keep everyone updated.