starting problem

[midtowntsi]

i was wondering if you guys would help me with a problem with the car starting... i've searched the forums and maybe i missed it but here it is....

all of a sudden i went to start the car the other day and nothing.. nothing at all, no sounds except all of the instruments came and the gauges came on and everything... and i got a friend to listen outside the car while i tried starting it and a slight clicking noise was coming from where the starter was... so i replaced the starter thinking it wasn't fully engaging with the flywheel and still nothing and i still have the same clicking sound coming from the starter, and i tried looking at the starter relay but the relay is fine and i was wondering if you guys could give me an idea or advice on what it might be?

 

[luv2rallye]

Sounds like weak battery under load or bad connections. Remove battery cables, clean them and battery posts, and retighten securely and try again. Also try to measure the voltage at the starter, battery posts, and battery terminals that connect to the battery posts all while turning the key to start the engine. If voltages differ you have a bad cable or connection. If battery voltage is less than 10.5 volts you have a weak battery. If clicking is really coming from the starter relay (inside console) instead of the starter magnetic relay (on starter), check the clutch pedal safety switch for proper operation.

 

[midtowntsi]

thank you i'll try that tommorow and if that doesn't help guess i'm back to the forums with more questions

 

[midtowntsi]

alright i tried the clutch safety switch and it was unplugged and i plugged it back up and still no response and i also noticed that after i try to start it and switch the ingition back to off it makes the clicking noise again

 

[midtowntsi]

well i tested all of the connections leading to the starter and all the grounds and the problem still persists... i took the starter out to see if everything was connected tightly enough, and they were but i saw on the teeth of the gear that it looks like the starter is either turning the flywheel or trying to because of the "marks" on the gear looks on half of it... not real sure what it could be unless it's something to with fuel or with it connecting with the flywheel please answer back

 

[luv2rallye]

alright i tried the clutch safety switch and it was unplugged and i plugged it back up and still no response and i also noticed that after i try to start it and switch the ingition back to off it makes the clicking noise again

Are you sure the clicking noise is coming from the starter itself and not the starter relay which is behind the radio? Is the clicking loud or soft?

FYI the starter relay actually breaks the starter circuit when activated (circuit is complete when relay is not energized so it should not be clicking). The clutch pedal safety switch allows the relay to be energized when the pedal is in the up position (so starter circuit is broken which forces you to push the pedal down). This is annoying to many dsmers who want to be able to operate the starter with the clutch engaged so they unplug the clutch pedal safety switch.

If you have a faulty theft alarm relay stuck on, that will also energize the starter relay to prevent starting. Remove the theft alarm relay to see if it is the culpret (it's the lower right one of a cluster of 4 relays high up under the driver's side dash). If ok, leave out and you can then test if it's the starter relay by removing it and jumpering it's socket pin 2 (black/red wire on upper slot) to pin 4 (black/yellow wire on middle slot). Starter should engage when key turned to start. If it doesn't your problem is elsewhere.

But if the clicking really is coming from the starter, then you either have 1) another bad starter (not uncommon) or 2) a weak battery or 3) most likely: bad starter cables or starter cable connections either positive or negative. Poor cable connections from the battery to the starter is the #1 cause of starter problems. I'm talking the big cables. The ends can get corroded, dirty, not tight, or partially broken (inside) where the cable meets the terminal. If there is even 0.1 ohm resistance in the path from battery to starter, it will drop so much voltage when you crank, that there won't be enough voltage left at the starter (needs to be more than 10 volts at the starter). Remove and clean both ends of these cables (and what they connect to) and battery posts with sandpaper and tighten securely. Do both the battery positive to the starter and battery negative to engine (connection to engine must also be clean/tight – this is usually to a starter case bolt). Also try wiggling the cables to check for breaks.

After doing this if it still won't crank, measure the voltage across the starter itself while cranking. If it's less than across the battery posts themselves (while cranking), one of the cables is your problem and needs to be replaced. You can measure the voltage drop across each cable (from one end to the other) while cranking to find out which - should be close to zero. Or what's easier is connect a battery jumper cable from battery negative post to engine block. If it now cranks your negative cable/connection is bad. If not, connect the battery jumper cable from battery positive post to starter positive post. If it now cranks your positive cable/connection is bad.

 

[midtowntsi]

ok i'm sure it is not the starter relay b/c it is deffinately comming from inside the engine bay...

i tried connecting both a negative and positive jumper cable to the starter and i still get the same problem as i previously stated...

and i listened when i tried cranking the car and the clicking noise happens not when the key is in the starting position but just when i switch it to the on position... and also the clicking noise happens when i turn the key to the off position...

and i tested the battery while trying to crank and everything was ok ~12.4 volts, but i still have to test the starter

 

[luv2rallye]

You can test the starter by either jumpering the starter relay and turn key to start as I said above OR by touching a wire from the big + cable post on the starter to the other wire (black/yellow) post on the starter. Make sure your in neutral when you do this.

 

[midtowntsi]

ok i took the starter off the car and tested it according to the chilton's book i have and it only passed 1 of the 3 test so i guess autozone sold me a bad starter

 

[luv2rallye]

Don't feel bad - you're the umpteenth one although you may want to get a starter made/re-manufactured by a different company. I only get starters/alternators from a shop that just repairs/sells them (that's all they do) for all the local dealerships (see yellow pages "Starters-Engine"). Never had a problem as they know how and have the equipment to test them completely. They also cost less there (no big markup) and will repair/re-manufacture your old one if you want (they also have new ones).