My Timing Has Gotten Me Mad!!!!

[Fb90gsT]

Let me start saying that for some reason my timming is always skipping.
I already have gone through two heads becasue it has bent the valves.
When it happened the first time, it skipped two teeth and bent my valves.
I found out that the Auto tensioner was very worn out and that was the cause of it.
NOW I bought a new tensioner and got a another rebuilt head.
Put it together and it was okay for like one week.
WHAT I NOTICED THAT EVERYTIME I WOULD TURN OFF THE CAR IT WILL SHAKE A LOT, I THINK IT WOULD BACK FIRE OR SOMETHING, BUT I STILL THINK THAT WAS WEIRD.
OKay so one day I turned the car off then when i went to turn it on the valves started hitting the pistons again AND THE CAR WOULD SHAKE SO BAD SO I IMMIDIATELY TURNED IT OFF.
I checked the timming and it went off about three teeth.
I took of the head and there you go all the intake valves are bent.
MY QUESTION IS THIS, WHY IS MY CAR SKPPING TIME WHEN I TURN THE CAR OFF?
THE CAR SORT OF RATTLES AS IT TURNS OFF.

 

[Julia]

Have you replaced the belt itself? That could have a lot to do with it and there are a lot of other things it could be, did you set the automatic tensioner with the pin holes to the top?Did you make sure the tensioner was fully compressed? Just not sure what would cause it to happen three times but it sounds like something that you are doing is causing the belt to slip and not be tensioned properly.
Julia

 

[Julia]

i betcha your balance shaft is out of phase

Makes sense. Did you pull the plug on the back side of the motor to make sure you could put a screwdriver in and it slides in all the way and the shaft dont turn?
Julia

 

[92redman]

First of all, I would like to know how much tension you put on the belt to begin with? The so called "auto tensioner" should not even be considered a tensioner, it's more of a damper for the timing belt. The real tensioner is the eccentric pulley that is on the tensioner arm and is set buy loosening the bolt and turning the pulley clockwise or counterclockwise. Ideally you should have about 4mm of protrusion from the autotensioner when everything is set.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

Let me start saying that for some reason my timming is always skipping.
I already have gone through two heads becasue it has bent the valves.
When it happened the first time, it skipped two teeth and bent my valves.
I found out that the Auto tensioner was very worn out and that was the cause of it.
NOW I bought a new tensioner and got a another rebuilt head.
Put it together and it was okay for like one week.
WHAT I NOTICED THAT EVERYTIME I WOULD TURN OFF THE CAR IT WILL SHAKE A LOT, I THINK IT WOULD BACK FIRE OR SOMETHING, BUT I STILL THINK THAT WAS WEIRD.
OKay so one day I turned the car off then when i went to turn it on the valves started hitting the pistons again AND THE CAR WOULD SHAKE SO BAD SO I IMMIDIATELY TURNED IT OFF.
I checked the timming and it went off about three teeth.
I took of the head and there you go all the intake valves are bent.
MY QUESTION IS THIS, WHY IS MY CAR SKPPING TIME WHEN I TURN THE CAR OFF?
THE CAR SORT OF RATTLES AS IT TURNS OFF.

A whole lot of things can be wrong here. First of all when you replace the timing belt you should replace the auto tensioner as the original has a shorter stroke than the new ones. I would also replace the water pump as it's right behind the belt and although it won't cause timing belt problems a leak right after a belt replacement will cause you to really be annoyed. Also, the tensioners wear out and don't hold all the slack out that comes from a running engine. On my first belt change I would get a whole kit which includes the idler pulleys. I had to replace a head due to an idler pulley seizure. Now as far as the adjustment itself. I would use a factory manual to set your timing marks. Do not deviate from them. In lay terms the dowels go up on the cams, marks align with the head/block mating surface, the crank at approx 2 o-clock and the rear oil pump set by removing bolt from back of block and sticking in a 1/4 diameter pin to verify the weight is to the bottom. It's a 3 to 1 ratio and if you keep turning the pulley at one point it will try to line up by itself. It is then at the right position. If not sure, use the rod. The little inner belt is your front counterbalancer belt. Replace it first for obvious reasons and set the tension until it's snug. Now using the timing belt tensioner tool which you really do need. If not sure what it is, find a Snap On dealer and he can get you one.

Set the tension by adjusting the tensioner until the pin in the auto tensioner is floating in the hole. You can go a small amount tighter but not so much as to seize the pin in the hole. Turn the tensioner clockwise to set the tension and lock it down with the bolt which goes through the tensioner.

Double check to make sure all your marks are lined up. If they aren't, do it again until they are. You can use large paper clips at a Staples to hold the belt on the cams so they don't jump a tooth as they are a pain in the ass to keep from jumping otherwise. Start at the front cam moving clockwise until you get to the crank. Back the crank up one tooth to take out any slack in the belt as you set the mark. This takes practice but works for me. Now once you are absolutely sure things are lined up, check the tension on the pin in the tensioner. If it is very difficult to remove then you either didn't tighten it up enough or too much. One is as bad as the other. Make sure it is easy to remove. If it is, remove it at this time.

Hand crank the engine over 6 revolutions on the crank. This sets the belt and makes sure that the oil pump pulley mark will come back in line. Besides it's good exercise. If all your marks come back exactly in line and the tensioner pin hole is almost exactly where it was when you removed the pin you should be OK. Anything other than that I would not start the engine. If all these things are met then install your covers and all the goodies on the engine to see if it runs. If it does and you have no strange noises you should have a successful timing belt experience. Good luck and sorry for the book.

 

[Fb90gsT]

Thanks for all your input.
It is my first time that I mess with the timing so I am going to get a manual to know all the right specifications and do it all over again.
Probably it was I that made a mistake but still doubt it.
Now I am going to hope for the best because I am really getting bored of driving a Saturn Ion.
Just wanted to say that it couldn't be the balance shafts because they have been removed.
:dam:

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Thanks for all your input.
It is my first time that I mess with the timing so I am going to get a manual to know all the right specifications and do it all over again.
Probably it was I that made a mistake but still doubt it.
Now I am going to hope for the best because I am really getting bored of driving a Saturn Ion.
Just wanted to say that it couldn't be the balance shafts because they have been removed.
:dam:

Just to let you know, as per factory service manual, when you eliminate the "balance shaft", it is actually the counter-balance shaft. You still have to check if your oil pump balance shaft is in phase.

"It is quite possible that your oil pump sprocket can be timed right, but your balance shaft can still be out of phase"

check by pulling the rear plug (FYI, it's located in the center bottom of the block, towards the FIREWALL; it took me forever yesterday to find the damn thing).

Also,
" an easier way to check is if you spin the oil pump sprocket arrow to 12 o'clock and see which way it falls. If it falls TOWARDS the timing mark, the balance shaft is in phase. If it falls AWAY from the timing mark (towards 3 o'clock), then you need to rotate the sprocket one full turn and retest. It should then fall towards 10 o'clock.

 

[92redman]

Just to let you know, as per factory service manual, when you eliminate the "balance shaft", it is actually the counter-balance shaft. You still have to check if your oil pump balance shaft is in phase.

"It is quite possible that your oil pump sprocket can be timed right, but your balance shaft can still be out of phase"

check by pulling the rear plug (FYI, it's located in the center bottom of the block, towards the FIREWALL; it took me forever yesterday to find the damn thing).

Also,
" an easier way to check is if you spin the oil pump sprocket arrow to 12 o'clock and see which way it falls. If it falls TOWARDS the timing mark, the balance shaft is in phase. If it falls AWAY from the timing mark (towards 3 o'clock), then you need to rotate the sprocket one full turn and retest. It should then fall towards 10 o'clock.

He said the shafts are removed. The oil pump doesn't care and an out-of-phase balance shaft would cause a vibration while running, not a jumped timing belt if it was tensioned properly to begin with. I don't know if you have cracked open your oil pump yet, but the only thing in there is two gears with a 3 to 1 ratio. When that balance shaft is removed and the stub shaft is in, there is no out-of-phase.

 

[Fb90gsT]

That is right since the balance shafts have been removed the oil pump sprocket has a stub at the other end.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

He said the shafts are removed. The oil pump doesn't care and an out-of-phase balance shaft would cause a vibration while running, not a jumped timing belt if it was tensioned properly to begin with. I don't know if you have cracked open your oil pump yet, but the only thing in there is two gears with a 3 to 1 ratio. When that balance shaft is removed and the stub shaft is in, there is no out-of-phase.

it's quite possible I'm wrong, as I don't have a lot of experience with this. But since I'm in the process of redoing my timing belt, that's what I gathered. all good though, at least my statement has been corrected