Won't Start, Electrical/Fuel Prob?

[Tech9Talon]

I was driving the other day and pulled into a parking spot. The car just turned off. After running the battery dead trying to figure out what is wrong, I replaced it. The motor turns over, we get spark also. The fuel pump is getting no power. We checked the relays and they work fine (according to the haynes manual). I wanted to check the fuel pump fuse and/or MPI Fuse, but I can't seem to locate them? There is nothing for fuel or msi in the fusebox located near the battery. I did a google search and found that they are in a small box on the passenger side of the engine bay in a 1g, but I cannot find one on my 2g spyder gst.

A mechanic said they had a similar problem and worked on it for 2 weeks, but couldn't figure it out. They had to send it to satan (aka dealer) and they found it was some kind of speed sensor? I hope im heading in the right direction checking the fuses, then I was going to check the cam angle sensor(we noticed it is @ 7v key-on engine-off, manual says it should be 12, then 3-7 after engine is on)?



Also the only code I pulled before was a bad TPS. Didn't get a chance to check them before the battery went.

 

[I-luv-em-all]

I just installed a fuel pump rewire kit on my car, and drove for about 10 min, then the car just shut off and would not start. I tried to rewire it back to stock, and that didn't do it.

Then I went under the hood right by the battery fuse box on 1G's, im not sure about the 2G's, but i had blown my MPI fuse (that stands for Multi Port Injection), not the "MSI". Check that fuse it cost be 2.50 to replace then the car started fine.

 

[Tech9Talon]

Thanks, I don't know why I typed MSI. I checked the multiport and fuel pump relays and they work. I'm going to have to check that fuse tonight, when I can get a ride to the garage. Hope thats all it is. I'll let you know.

 

[river]

your fuel pump relay itself may have gone out...happened to mine.

 

[Tech9Talon]

I did what the haynes manual did to check the mpi and fuel pump relays, both are good according to that test. What is that click under the hood when the key is turned to the on position? Is that the MPI relay? I was looking on taboo speed shop and going through some of those steps.

http://www.taboospeedshop.com/MCDS.htm

 

[TheBoosted96GST]

well I don't have a solution for your problem i'm hoping someone could help me...I can start my car in the morning..but I have to give it gas or else it dies...i'm figuring vacume leak..anyways I can drive the car to work..turn it off, then turn it on and it will only crank..then I wait 5mins and it will start again but it seems I gotta pump the gas...I haven't checked the MPI fuse or fuel pump relays dunno if that could be it, i'm guessing bad FPR, any help please

 

[Tech9Talon]

Everything I checked tonight:
Fuel pump relays work
Fuel pump operation
Plugs fire
Crank sensor seems to be good
Cam sensor also checks as good
Replaced fuel filter

I get Gas and Spark but no ignition

We're goinna check timing tomorrow and the speed sensor and anything else we can think of.

I don't know fuel pressure because only the 420a have the service port. Might order a fuel pressure gauge tonight.

Also the MPI Fuse is nowhere to be found in the 2g fuse box, but I assume it works since the fuel pump is whirling.

 

[Hobart]

Two things to try one are you getting spark on all 4 plugs? 2 check for fuel pressure i just went through my spyder gst with the same type of problem ihad no spark on 2 cylinders do to a bad cam sensor if you have spark on all four and fuel pressure as long as the power to the ecu and the ecu are good it would at least try to start let me know ill see if i can help as i have acces to all of mits info.

 

[Tech9Talon]

Yes I do get spark. I had to order a Fuel Pressure guage tonightm should be here sat or mon. The turbo models don't have that valve for the gauge we have.

 

[Maxximillion]

hey, i don't mean to take over this thread or jump in rudely but i'm having a similar problem, and i've checked all the things you already have to. i've got fuel, spark and timing is perfect but all my car does is crank over. the only thing i would offer as help for your situation to narrow it down is plug a noid light into one of your injector harnesses and crank the car over. if the light flashes then that should rule out all sensors, and your ecu, as the ecu is the only thing that controls the signal to the injectors. and seeing as how you have fuel and spark, your crank, and cam sensors are functioning too, as your ecu is recieving timing pulses and sending ignition signals to the coil giving you spark on your plugs. a standard noid light set is cheap and works well. but you won't find one specially made for our cars. so find a set that has a bunch for GM. it worked well

my problem however, is that i have fuel, spark and timing but my injectors are not firing. when i used a noid light, i got no light pulse out of any of my injectors. now theres three things that i think it could be so if anybody has any ideas or thoughts let me know.

1. the ECU - i was thinking that since the ecu is the controlling device over the injectors, that this is the problem as to why the car doesn't run. i have spark and fuel. but no injector pulse.

2. the sensors - i was also thinking that it could be that there is a sensor on our cars thats is vital to the operation of the injectors by sending some signal to the ecu. if there is a sensor thats faulty would it prevent the ecu from sending signal to the injectors? what sensor could it be thats so vital? i have heard of the coolant sensor causing "no starts" but in what way would it prevent the car from running

3. the resistor - the only thing in between the injectors and the ECU is the the injector resistor(s). in the haynes book, it says to have a qualified mechanic check this and the ECU but right now i'm that qualified mechanic and the car is in my garage. where is the resistor? and how do you test it?

again i appologise for jumping into this thread but i'm hoping that anything i might have thought of before might help you out in your situation. and if anybody knows where that resistor is PLEASE let me know. and if you want any more info or any questions let me know. your car is a little different than my 92 talon AWD but i've fixed just about everything on this car so i'll help out in any way i can.

Jason.

 

[Tech9Talon]

We decided to chec the timing last night. The cams were way off, and so was the oil pump. Everything else seemed fine. Pistons were hitting the valves. :thumbdown Hopefully nothing is bent. I'll put a new timing belt on after work today.

 

[GTM]

We decided to chec the timing last night. The cams were way off, and so was the oil pump. Everything else seemed fine. Pistons were hitting the valves. :thumbdown Hopefully nothing is bent. I'll put a new timing belt on after work today.

Do a compression check before replacing the belt and properly timed. If valves are bent you will just have to take it back off to remove the head to make repairs.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Tech9Talon]

What is to low compression? When we tested it with the timing off it got higher from #4 which was 130 to #1 whihc was 160. Am I shooting for 160 here? How do I do the compression test with out the belt on? Justing turning the crank?

 

[GTM]

What is to low compression? When we tested it with the timing off it got higher from #4 which was 130 to #1 whihc was 160. Am I shooting for 160 here? How do I do the compression test with out the belt on? Justing turning the crank?

There is _NO_ way to check the compression with the belt off.

As for compression values, a varience of 10% is considered acceptable. Either way you look at it 1>4 or 4>1 exceeds those values.

Will the car run with 130, the answer is yes but you will have a slightly rough running engine and some vibration. On the optimistic side the valve(s) may hammer it's self back into becoming straight and the compression will improve. The down side is it could get worse or even disasterous should the head break off.

You can make it run they way it is, this will give you an opportunity to buy the parts you want at the price you want to pay and defer the job for a while. I would not visit high rpm, until you get some miles on the engine and see if the compression comes back to the 10% specification. These are judgments calls you will have to make depending on your wallet and circumstances. Do you know what the compression was before this mishap?

Hope that helps, sorry to be the bearer of not such good news.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Tech9Talon]

THe car is running fine now. We did a compression test after the timing was set and we could only see numbers of 30-60. Car runs fine? I don't know how this could be?

 

[GTM]

THe car is running fine now. We did a compression test after the timing was set and we could only see numbers of 30-60. Car runs fine? I don't know how this could be?

Yegads, me thinks something is wrong in the compression taking department if the car runs fine now. Granted the engine may have been cold but you had reported higher numbers than that before.

When you get a chance do another compression check after it's been properly warmed up... after a drive. Maybe you need to use a 2nd gauge or check with a known source like an air compressor. Though slower and sometimes records a bit lower the screw in hose type should be best now. Let the engine crank for at least a minimum of 3-4 compressions _with_ the throttle held wide open for the whole test for EACH cylr. Repeat for each cylr, if you forget to hold it open then check again. You need to write these down along with the date. But there is no way it will run with 30-60 psi so something is wrong with the gauge or the way you are performing the test.

Glad you got wheels again.

Cheers,
GTM

 

[Tech9Talon]

Well, the car ran fine untill today. I belive the valves didn't seat properly and I possibly burnt one? The car sputters and seams to miss now. I think I;m going to replace all valves, guides, and seals. I'm thinking about having the head ported and polished while I have it off, but I doubt the machine shop will do it. No local performance shops either. I would have to ship it somewhere (maybe in PA or OH)?

I'm kinda getting tired of DSM's, maybe it's time for something new.

My luck I'll put the valves in, head down the road, and crankwalk.