Acts like it's out of gas.

[Auladan]

First, allow me the obligatory "I HATE THIS [expletive deleted} CAR."

-Ahem-

Hokay. Now, this thing's had it's share of problems, from oil leaks to timing failure, but it's been running moderately reliably for weeks until now. I was driving to school (an hour away), and had pulled over at the first gas station on the way to fill up. It was running perfectly, as it had been. I put in 6 dollars worth of 92 octane, got in and tried to start it, and just a moment after it started, it died. With the key still turned, the starter continued to whir. So I tried again, and the same thing happenned. I tried 12 or so times, and did a few brief checks under the hood. Everything looks fine.

So, as soon as it starts, it dies. Belts are all in tact, I still have power, no visible leaks, no strange sounds.

Any ideas?

 

[95kate]

haha you sound like me... i suspect it might be your fuel rail or injectors. you may wanna check those out, but that's just a guess for me. maybe this'll help you feel a lil better.
i'ma start a thread to see what kinda problems ppl go through with their car. check it out and maybe you'll see there are a lotta us out there that go through hell too

 

[Auladan]

Just got it back home (pop's pulled it with his truck) after checking the fuel line. When cranking it over I get plenty gas, so delivery isn't the issue. Thing is, even with the fuel line off, the engine acted EXACTLY the same as earlier -- trying to start, but dieing just after.

We're going to try new plugs and wires since mine are around 169,xxx miles old, assuming the previous owners never changed them (the motor's around 45,xxx miles).

Wish me luck.

 

[steve]

Before you get too carried away, ground pin 7 on the MPI relay and see if you car continues to run. That's the pin the ECU uses to keep the fuel pump running after you release the starter. If that fixes the problem your going to need your ECU looked at and repaired.

Steve

 

[95kate]

heh you think the gas station put diesel in the gas pump?

 

[Auladan]

Y'know, Kate, with my run a'luck this week I wouldn't doubt it.

Steve, I'll give that a go 'soon as the rain lets up. Thanks for the tip. I'll try to keep this thread updated to see what fixes the problem.

 

[Auladan]

Well, I took my plugs out and they were all worn, but usable. The third plug was coated in gas and smelled of it strong. I don't see how that could be the problem, though. The car ran well, I filled up at this hick station, and immediately after it won't start (well, it'll start like I said, then die immediately. Sometimes now though it won't even start.)

I havn't played with the ECU yet, but I did unbolt the fuel line and, with it tipped in to a bucket, turned over the motor, and I'm getting plenty of gas. Previously, when the motor would die, I could continue to hold the starter on and it'd die anyway, so I doubt that the fuel is being cut.

Any other ideas? Could this be as simple as real bad gas? Plugs, maybe? It's my only mode of transportation to school and back, except for borrowing others' vehicles, which is already getting old.

Please, 'any' help at all would be very, very, very much appreciated.

 

[95kate]

hmmmmmm sounds far fetched but still something simple.... check out your starter... maybe something's getting stuck. you said it continued to whirl so maybe it got jarred loose or something and it's wedged the flywheel or something... i'm no mechenic but it's worth a try. ..... i dont have my handy dandy "haynes repair guide" to look it up. it's in my car 2 states away getting a body kit put on and the car painted

 

[BrokenTsi]

bad fuel pressure regulator. grab one from the local boneyard. you can even use a nonturbo fpr, has slightly higher then turbo i think

 

[BrokenTsi]

it happened to me so that's why i posted it.

 

[Auladan]

Well, I just went out and tried my old fuel pressure regulator (the two-nippled doo hickey at the end of the fuel rail), but the motor acted exactly as it had with its stock fpr. My old one was left over from the car's first motor, and had been left out under a tarp for well over a year, but I suspect, even if it were busted, the engine would have behaved a 'little' different, at least.

At any rate, I'm still stumped. But, I have another question, concerning this. See, I removed the two solenoids at the top right of the bay (looking in) in my attempt to clean up the bay. That included the fuel pressure solenoid, or whatever it's called. I read that it wouldn't harm the engine any though, because it only raised fuel pressure during cold starts. The car has run excellently without it for months. Could it just now be effecting it, 'somehow'?

Arr. Thanks for the suggestions though. More are totally welcome.

EDIT: Just to clarify, if I keep the key turned (starter running) the motor will continously turn over, start, run for half a second and die, over and over and over again. It's like, it'll get enough gas to start, then run out and die. This is seriously weird.

 

[95kate]

well i'm still sticking to simple lil stuff. check turbo to see if it spins (try spinnin it yourself), make sure it's in neutral and you press the clutch in when you start it. check all your vacuum lines and make sure one didnt pop off, is your BOV recycling back into the intake? what happens when you give it a lil gas? bad distributor? are wires connected to the dristributor tightly? bad idle air controller? bad pcv valve? check all that out and see if it's one or a combonation of those. i had a similar prob with my crx and had to change the dristributor. if it is then unless you have an extra free one to spare just go buy a new one. used ones tend to cost half as much and die fast, making you buy another and spending the same amount or more anyway.

 

[Auladan]

Done and done. All me hoses and the like are all connected fine. Nothing changed while I was filling her up, that I can see. Ran strong, filled it up, stopped running.

It was some hick mom & pop style gas station, so could a batch a'bad gas be the culprit? I havn't changed the fuel filter in ages (years), and perhaps the gas clogged my injectors? It 'will' start, but it dies right afterward. If I keep it cranked over, it'll start, die, start, die, et cetera.

Could that be a possibility?

As well, I'm going to check my ECU (once I find it, never played around with one) for leaky caps and the like 'soon as I can.

 

[Auladan]

Alright, to help the diagnosis, I'll list everything about this engine that's been modified.

Firstly, it's a 91+ 6 bolt I ordered from Japan. However, the stock USDM '90 intake manifold, throttle body, and A/C unit are attached (no A/C belt as of now, but not important to this problem). I'm using the '90 wiring harness. I have all emissions removed, and the two solenoids I mentioned previously (the one's on the driver side, at the top corner of the bay). Their's a sort of valve on the bottom left (looking in the bay) of the intake manifold, which I'm guessing is the EGR valve. I simply have the nipples capped with vacuum hosing and cut nails, as I do with all the other emissions nipples. I have the fuel pressur regulator's vacuum nipple hosed directly to the intake manifold, bypassing the solenoid it's fed through stock.

All guages work except my oil guage.

Now, I think that covers it, and I hope that helps.

 

[BrokenTsi]

pcv to intake manifold will cause the engine to run like that too

 

[BrokenTsi]

wait, a 90's harness with a 91 motor.

cam angle sensor is different. ignition coil pack and wiring harness are different, ignition transistor and wiring harness are different.

http://www.ecanfix.com/users/mdhamilton/ecuconversion.html

you will need a 91 ecu and switch 2 pins on it. I'm pretty sure.

 

[Auladan]

Ah, sorry. I forgot to mention those. I've swapped the cam angle sensor, coil pack and transistor to '90 spec.

Now, what is this PCV thing? I havn't heard of it before.

 

[Auladan]

Okay. I did a little sniffing around and found that the PCV hose is the hose from the intake manifold to the fitting on the valve cover. Correct?

So, I pulled that hose (very hard hose, much harder than the other rubber hoses in my bay) off the intake manifold and smelled inside. It's caked with oil and the like. Are you saying that this hose can cause my engine to run like it is?

If so, please elaborate on what I should do. Cap off the fitting on the intake manifold and on the valve cover, or...?

I gotta get this thing running by monday, and I've got very little money. Thanks again for everyone's time on this.

 

[95kate]

nope that where you put a breather if you want. if you do that then cap off the intake. i cant remember where the hose is but look for the brassy pcv valve. i think it's above the intake mani and between the head and mani, attached to the mani. pcv valve at pep boys was like 3 dollard for me and get $10 worth of vacuum hose and you should be fine for changin that. i dont think it'ss do anything but make your car smoke if that's bad tho.

 

[95kate]

nope that where you put a breather if you want. if you do that then cap off the intake. i cant remember where the hose is but look for the brassy pcv valve. i think it's above the intake mani and between the head and mani, attached to the mani. pcv valve at pep boys was like 3 dollard for me and get $10 worth of vacuum hose and you should be fine for changin that. i dont think it'ss do anything but make your car smoke if that's bad tho.

dam i cant tipe

 

[Auladan]

I... Don't really see what you're referring too. I see a hose that attaches to a fitting on the valve cover and to a thick nipple on the intake manifold. Perhaps a picture would help?

Anyhow, I can't see how that'd stall my engine out like this. A friend just told me about how I may have got some water in my gas tank, or the sort. I mean, this problem did start only immediately after filling up at this backwater station, but I can't say for certain.

If I decided to drain my car of gas completely, how would I go about that? I'm thinking of draining it, then putting in a gallon or so of some trusted gas, like from AM PM or the like.

Thanks again, Kate. Heh, y'seem to be a regular on me thread here.

(By the way, I pulled the hose I was talking about earlier off of the intake manifold nipple, leaving the other end on the valve cover, and turned over the motor just to see what would happen, and as soon as I turned the motor over, a jet of what looked like steam shot up through the nipple on the intake manifold. Is that normal?)

 

[95kate]

ok i drew a pic but iono how to get it on there. it might be in there so i'll explain anyway. ok this is your engine from the top. see the red arrow pointing to the red circle. that's where you stick a mini filter called a breather. then you cap off that line to the intake. see the blue arrow going to the blue circle? pcv valve should be there. hose should be connected near it. as far as the steam stuff iono about that. i had oil sprurting outta the breather (red arrow) when my turbo was about to blow. that's about all i know regarding that. oh and sorry but i'm not kate. my car is kate. i'm David. ok if this pic dont load what am i doin wrong? i got a "page cannot be displayed" after uploading

 

[Auladan]

Picture didn't show. Y'could try hosting it on a site like boomspeed.com, then linking it here.

Now, I'm still thinkin' there might be somethin' in the gas, or intake or the like. My air filter is very old (K&N, but I havn't cleaned it in the several years I've owned the car). The few days before this happened it'd been very, very wet out here. Y'think I might have sucked up enough water to kill combustion?

 

[95kate]

with your hood closed. and unless it was flooding like 3 feet... not a chance. and if it did suck up enough water you prolly woulda noticed it after a few secs.... not a few miles. are you positively sure it isnt the distributor?

 

[Auladan]

Alright. Water wasn't that bad. So if I 'do' have water in the tank (or anything alien) it came from the fill up.

And, this car doesn't have a distributer. It's got a coil pack. I took out the plugs and turned over the motor, and they all gave spark, so it's not that.

I'm wondering if my CAS (cam angle sensor) fouled up.