Belt squeaks on abrupt downshifts...

[90 GSX]

It's the water pump/alternator belt that squeaks. How do I stop it, I hate V-belts, all my cars have been serpentine. But why does it squeak only when its really cold or when I downshift quickly (any tempterature) and whats the fix. And please don't tell me to get belt dressing :thumbdown

Thanks!

 

[Defiant]

It's liable to be your harmonic balancer.

If you won't double-clutch, at least learn to double-kick.

 

[90 GSX]

Rev matching is meant to take stress of the synchros in the tranny. On a synchronized tranny, there is no need for double clutching or rev matching (although rev matching helps it is not necessary). Regardless, I should be able to downshift without rev matching and without my belt squeaking.

 

[Defiant]

Rev matching is meant to take stress of the synchros in the tranny. On a synchronized tranny, there is no need for double clutching or rev matching (although rev matching helps it is not necessary). Regardless, I should be able to downshift without rev matching and without my belt squeaking.

This arguement has arisen many times before, and you're wrong. Even synchronized transmissions benefit from double-clutching -which is not rev-matching. Rev-matching is what I'd grown up hearing as double-kicking, where you do a double-clutch throttle kick but leave out the clutching. As all the "My 2nd Gear Grinds" threads tends to show, double-clutching does seem "necessary" in DSMs.
And yes, you could downshift like an ape without noises, and probably did for many years. However, now you do have noises.

Still, it's more liable on a DSM to be your harmonic balancer than a belt. Get a strong flashlight and see if it's wandering any at idle speeds, and with moderate throttle blips.

 

[90 GSX]

This arguement has arisen many times before, and you're wrong. Even synchronized transmissions benefit from double-clutching -which is not rev-matching. Rev-matching is what I'd grown up hearing as double-kicking, where you do a double-clutch throttle kick but leave out the clutching. As all the "My 2nd Gear Grinds" threads tends to show, double-clutching does seem "necessary" in DSMs.
And yes, you could downshift like an ape without noises, and probably did for many years. However, now you do have noises.

Still, it's more liable on a DSM to be your harmonic balancer than a belt. Get a strong flashlight and see if it's wandering any at idle speeds, and with moderate throttle blips.

Actually, there are no noises except a belt squeaking which has nothing to do with the downshifts and has something to do with my balancer. I will investigate and find out, however I already know my timing belt tensioner is bad so I will be replacing that and check out any other problems. I read the guide for timing belt replacement on vfaq and it seems pretty straight forward.

Also, I know exactly what double-clutching is, and I don't downshift like an ape as you assumed. I downshift and let the clutch out slowly only when I'm braking so I can keep my foot on the brake while I downshift because I have found it to be just as smooth and save braking distance. When I am downshifting to get into my power band and accelerate, I always rev the motor up to match. Regardless, there is no need to double clutch and I don't care what argument you give me - unless you are anal to furthest extreme, it is unncessary. We are not in the 1950's any more... I started laughing when I saw fast and the furious part one and the guy talked about how he should have double clutched to make his lap time faster or something - :laugh:

I just bought this car less than 2 months ago (not years ago) and I'm new to DSMs in general, I have already learned a lot but I still have more to learn. However, Ihave owned many cars, all of which were fast that I built by myself. I don't need moderators on a board that I just joined two days ago, talking to me condescendingly and when I obviously wanted just an answer (not your commentary).

 

[SpeedFreak03]

I just want to give my opinion on this. I've been into DSMs for about a year and a half now, and I can honestly say that from my experience, double-clutching DOES help in DSMs. Yes, they do have synchronized trannys, but I guess you don't hear about the grinding gear threads when a synchro is shot. Regardless of synchronized or not, it is ALWAYS a good idea to double clutch when dropping in your powerband and trying to go fast, not a normal downshift. With a normal downshift it's just not necessary, but for a "speed-shifting" (for lack of a better word ) downshift, it just takes so much stress off the synchros. Some people have the $$$ to replace trannys, not me!

One more thing, Ive been on this board for a while, and you will soon find that Defiant knows WTF he's talking about. And he gave you an answer twice actually:

It's liable to be your harmonic balancer.

Still, it's more liable on a DSM to be your harmonic balancer than a belt. Get a strong flashlight and see if it's wandering any at idle speeds, and with moderate throttle blips.

Then he gave his opinion (well you could call it a fact) about how to make your synchros last longer, so I wouldn't call that commentary. Anyway welcome to the boards and if you have any more questions feel free to ask!

 

[90 GSX]

Thanks for the info man. I just didn't appreciate his tone (if that's possible on the internet haha) that's all. So the balancer can actually go bad with miles on it? Does the metal stretch or something? I have no idea how the balancer is designed but usually it is a press fit over the crank snout. It looked a slight bit wobbly at idle but once I revved it up it was straight again.

As for the downshifting, I will keep in mind that double clutching can be good when I downshift fast... these trannies seem to give people a lot of problems. My car actually grinds first gear when it's cold moreso so I have to baby it or put it in second then back up to first. Third is also getting a bit notchy so I know what you mean. Is a JDM tranny any stronger than the first? Is there anywhere I can get parts to rebuild the tranny stronger?

 

[SpeedFreak03]

Well, theres Defiant for you, you'll get used to him with time . To answer your questions, of course it can go bad with miles/time, what on these cars doesn't ? If it's wobbly then it is probably worn.

From what I've seen, they are pretty strong trannies, and can handle some serious power with only the occasional grind here or there. Sorry I really don't know much about transmission internals, but you should contact John Shepard here: http://www.shepracing.com/ he rebuilds DSM trannies for $895 (AWD), these trannies are ####ing rock solid when he's done with 'em!

About JDM and DSMs, it's NOTHING like Honda, the JDM engines and trannies really aren't that much better then the USDM stuff. Sure they come with bigger turbos (mitsu 16G vs our 14B/T-25) and bigger injectors (550s vs our 450s), but the engines themselves aren't anything special. Same with trannies. I'd get John to rebuild your tranny if your worried about it, otherwise replace the fluid with synthetic and that should smooth the shifts out.

 

[Defiant]

Thanks for the info man. I just didn't appreciate his tone (if that's possible on the internet haha) that's all. So the balancer can actually go bad with miles on it? Does the metal stretch or something? I have no idea how the balancer is designed but usually it is a press fit over the crank snout. It looked a slight bit wobbly at idle but once I revved it up it was straight again.

Yeah, that's blown. They aren't supposed to visibly wobble at all. It's a heavy ring held to the center by a rubber vulcanization.

I'd apologize for my tone, but for me it's like apologizing for having a nose. It's still there no matter what I say.