1G Anyone have a Zex kit

[rick]

i have been thinking about buying a kit for later use. i know its a very good kit, but, i was told that it may be harder to install on my talon, considering the turbo. anyone know anything bout this? anyone have a zex kit?

 

[brokeawd]

My buddy has one on his 97 AT Talon turbo. Very easy to install, it bumps the fuel pressure up for you when you spray so there is no tapping into the fuel lines. Good kit overall.

 

[TaLoNBLiNGBLiNG]

Zex is supposed to be the easiest nitrous to install. Fuel is matched to the nitrous (no matter the pressure of the bottle).

 

[marshall]

yup, took about an hour and a half to install. great kit.

 

[CL MaNTis GST]

better over the NX wet kit?

 

[marshall]

i'm not sure i'd say either one is better, both get the job done just fine. zex is way easier to install though.

 

[NosLaser]

I seriously recommend skipping over the ZEX kit and installing a wet kit for use with a turbo car.

Regards,

 

[marshall]

why?

marshall

 

[NosLaser]

You got a minute?

There are a NUMBER of reasons why you don't want to use a dry kit on a turbo car. You can research my posts on this forum for a lot of the info in more detail, but I will touch on the subject here for you. Think about how each kit adds fuel. We'll start real basic by saying that horsepower is a combination of air and fuel. ALL nitrous kits EXCEPT for a sneaky pete system (which is used on carburated cars ONLY, and specifically states 're-jet Carburator before use) have provisions for extra fuel. Wet kits add fuel by tapping into your fuel feed line, and acting as almost an extra injector to spray a controlled amount of fuel along with a controlled amount of nitrous for proper atomization. On a dry kit, it adds fuel via fuel pressure. Think about how a turbocharger works. You have a vacuum feed that senses manifold pressure, and raises fuel pressure at a rate of 1 pound per pound of boost. On a dry kit, you are actualy spraying a controlled amount of nitrous INTO the fuel pressure regulator, thus bumping fuel pressure to sky high levels. This does a number of things. First off, you are taxing your fuel system by causing the injectors to act at a higher duty cycle which does a few things. Number one, you run a greater risk of the injectors locking up due to high pressure, and number 2, the spray pattern can become more erratic and cause hotter conditions, and higher EGT's. To compensate for this, you have to run bigger injectors. I was adding 38% fuel at 7K rpm on the AFC with 660cc injectors with an unclipped 16g with -8 fuel lines and a Walbro 255LP HP pump using 60#'s of base fuel pressure. That should give you the idea of how much fuel is required JUST to compensate for the high pressure a dry kit will create. A wet kit on the other hand doesn't touch fuel pressure at all. It acts as a 5th injector, and has a similar effect to going from 450cc injectors to 550cc injectors. It's a much more even spray pattern, it is much safer, runs cooler EGT's, and makes more power. Do you need any more convincing?

Regards,

 

[marshall]

i'm sorry, i could've saved you a lot of typing...

i know why people say dry kits are crap for turbo cars. but i still like them. i'm running my zex kit at 55 shot on 550's with no fueling problems (datalogger, EGT, fuel pressure). my fuel pressures are up around 80psi. 18psi boost.

i don't like the idea of fuel flowing through the intake manifold. it was meant to flow air, not liquid, IMO. your 5th injector adage is very accurate, it's similar to what low dollar turbo kits do for fuel. not the best way in my opinion. much more even spray pattern? i think i understand what you're saying, but if done correctly the dry kit will have way better spray patterns than a single nozzle wet kit.

so not to be argumentative, but yes, i do need more convincing...i do agree that direct port wet kits are the best, but i don't think that single nozzle wet kits are better than dry kits - assuming you have a decent fuel system.

thanks for the reply,
marshall

 

[NosLaser]

...i know why people say dry kits are crap for turbo cars. but i still like them. i'm running my zex kit at 55 shot on 550's with no fueling problems (datalogger, EGT, fuel pressure). my fuel pressures are up around 80psi. 18psi boost....

Don't get me wrong, I ran a dry kit on my Laser for a long time with no problems.....but it would hav ebeen better with a wet kit. How does your car run? What kind of HP are you making? When you start getting ot the power levels I was at, you start realizing the limits of a dry kit on a turbo car. The fact that you are only on 550cc injectors, and 80psi of fuel pressure, I'd venture to say you are only making around 300HP to the wheels, maybe slightly more. I was making 423. A whole different ballgame.

...i don't like the idea of fuel flowing through the intake manifold. it was meant to flow air, not liquid, IMO. your 5th injector adage is very accurate, it's similar to what low dollar turbo kits do for fuel. not the best way in my opinion. much more even spray pattern? i think i understand what you're saying, but if done correctly the dry kit will have way better spray patterns than a single nozzle wet kit....

This is why nozzle placement is very important. On a dry kit, you place the nozzle right after the BOV so it has time to properly atomize. On a wet it, you put it directly next to the TB so it has a more straight shot into the intake manifold. Don't get mixed up thinking a wet kit just dumps fuel out like an 8 headed retard; it is a very controlled mist of fuel. It creates a cloud of fuel and nitrous once it enters the intake manifold and actually atomizes very well.

As far as spray pattern, I was referring to simply the injectors...that's my fault for not wording it correctly. With a wet kit, your injectors continue to work normally as if the nitrous wasn't even there since fuel pressure isn't being bumped. On a dry kit, their pattern can become erratic because fuel pressure gets bumped to umpteen psi and it's up to the condition of each injector to determine how well it's going to spray. Direct port is definately the best way to go, but also the most expensive, and most difficult to install. Of course, that is all relative.

Regards,

 

[marshall]

awesome reply, thanks aslan.

i really hope the newbies are reading this, they could learn so much from your posts.

marshall

 

[nano]

I persoanlly recommend a wet kit if you want to be safe. I ran a dry 75 shot from my zex kit, but it took some tunning to get it running right. For some reason on my car it always ran a little lean with no tunning. Although with the stock cams it did change my times from a 12.9 @ 105 to 12.1 @ 112.

 

[lambertvr4]

Sorry to jump on the "dry kits suck" bandwagon, but I've got a little to add to this discussion.

Assume that w/ the dry kit the N2O is thoroughly mixxed to each cylinder as evenly as the normal turbo charged air is. This makes sense. I see a possible problem arrising from the injectors supplying the needed fuel. Most injectors are not perfectly balanced. I would expect up to 5% difference b/t the 4 (from what I've seen). That 5% difference gets bigger w/ increased fuel pressure. Maybe even as high as 10% at max fuel pressure. There may be one cylinder w/ 5% less fuel than optimal and one w/ 5% more than optimal. Or it could be that one is 10% lean. Not good when all should have very similar amounts of oxygen to combust. This is a worst case scenario, but it is feasible.

Another big deal to me is the fact that the dry kit does not account for the outside air temp change. The kit may work just fine on a 70F day w/ little humidity, but what happens on a 10F day or a 110F day w/ 95% humidity? The ECU knows the difference and changes the DC. The dry kit does not. It just raises the fuel pressure. On either day you still have the same amount of N2O going in, but you may not have the same DC and time for the required amount of fuel to get injected. That could be catastrophic if it's hot outside. Engine is hot. Intake air is hot. The N2O cools the intake air down, but the ECU doesn't know and thus doesn't increase the DC to accomodate the cooler intake air and N2O.

I'll stick w/ a wet kit. I would rather spend the time installing than the time yanking the motor. Your car. Your choice.

 

[marshall]

we really need to start a new forum entitled "first hand knowledge - no conjecture"...

if the temp changes, the car accounts for it. the nitrous is constant, on a 10 deg day or a 200 deg day the nitrous is still constant. this much nitrous needs this much fuel.

you're worried about your injectors being 10% off? well if they are you're in trouble without nitrous...

i can't believe you're saying that a nozzle 2 feet away from the intake valves would be better than an electronically controlled injector 2 inches away. that makes no sense. do you think gas and liquid flow in precisely the same manner inside the intake manifold? i don't.

i'm not saying single nozzle wet kits don't work, just that they aren't as ideal as people seem to think...

loving my dry kit,
marshall

 

[lambertvr4]

If you'll read my post again w/ getting your panties in a bunch you'll realize that what I'm saying makes perfect sense. If your dwell time changes (100F day vs. 70F day vs. 20F day) but your N2O injection is constant then you obviously cannot inject the same amount of fuel. That means the system is untuned. That isn't the case on a wet system.

Out of balance injectors may not make a big difference w/ only a turbo. When a dry kit starts raising the fuel pressure up towards 100psi the difference in fuel flow on cyl A and B will differ even more. The spread b/t injectors will get even worse at such high fuel pressure. This may not be apparent at only 60psi of fuel pressure which is the typical highend of a turbo'd only car.

I don't think you understand what happens when N2O and fuel are injected thru a nozzle. It doesn't spray out like an injector. It "fogs" out. Hence the term "fogger nozzle." This is a finely atomized mixture of N2O and fuel. It will flow down the runners almost exactly like dry air. The only time you would ever have to worry about accumulation on the walls of the intake, etc. was if you were running a very large shot. And I've seen many cars w/ a large shot on a single fogger w/ much crappier intakes than ours.

I don't doubt that you're happy w/ your dry kit. But your ignorant rants do not convince me that it is the better design or even an equal design.

 

[nano]

I can't really explain it but, I sprayed in hot 80 degree days and cold mid 50s days and it really never made any difference on the tunning that I had. As bad as dry kit's design might seem they actually work preaty good. There's guys out there pushing 25psi of boost and a 125 dry shot from a zex kit. It's hard to belive that's even possible. Even when I spray a 75shot w/ 21psi of boost I cringe thinking what kind of fuel preasure I'm running. But strangely enough fuel distribution always seems smooth and perfect. I just don't recommend such a kit for the every day joe who dosen't want to tune or run into trouble. I've never installed a wet kit on a DSM but Noslaser has said that he's had better results with a wet kit though. Such as less nitrous lag and more power and torque. I have however installed an elderock wet kit in a 93 lightning. The power gains weren't as great as mine when he sprayed a 100shot and it always ran to rich. But I also have an AFC to tune, wich he dosen't.

 

[NosLaser]

...I have however installed an elderock wet kit in a 93 lightning. The power gains weren't as great as mine when he sprayed a 100shot and it always ran to rich. But I also have an AFC to tune, wich he dosen't....

Well, a lot of that has to do with the fact that gains on a turbocharged car are much higher than gains on a normally aspirated car. Nitrous helps a turbo car the same way it helps an all motor car, AND it also adds quicker spool, (it basically lights the wick on the turbo which creates a much more intense exhaust pulse, and in turn, intake charge) it takes the intercooling affect of your intercooler and basically quadruples it, also when the ECU retards timing like many DSM's do, the nitrous LIKES the lower timing and retarded timing with spray can actually gain power. Wet kits will make more power than dry kits. They are also safer on the engine, but like ANY other performance enhancement, they have a few drawbacks; most importantly, if things aren't running right, you can get fuel puddling. Either way, all options weighed, I feel wet kits are a much better way to go on a turbocharged vehicle. Injectors locking up from too much fuel pressure is not a good thing.

Regards,