Since my new motor my car has felt very nice. I have a nice tune with conservative timing and I'd estimate I'm at least around 340whp based on previous dynos, if not more. I'm going to dyno after I do a little more tuning, I also have to adjust the cams as I haven't even touched them yet.
I was looking into going with a bigger turbo, but I just love the 16g's immediate torque and I'd like to make some high hp on it. At this point I was looking into either running E85 or staying on 93 octane and doing a wet shot. I wanted to get some opinions from people who have done nitrous on a 16g. I was looking into doing a 75shot. What kind of power did you make on it? Was the torque too much between the 16g and a shot for the trans? How large of a shot would be good? What kind of fuel system were you running? You're overall opinion on it...
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~Mark
97' Evo III 16G Powered Eagle Talon
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No way I would use a dry shot on a turbo car, no way.
-throw a bigger jet on than necessary for the "hp" your shooting for, the HP your jetting for has absolutely no relation to a turbo car. I have never seen an actual chart that defines a N02 wet/dry shot to a boosted application because it can't be done.
N02 is pretty sweet imo, if setup properly, and you can actually afford a rebuild when it runs lean or blows a hole in your piston.
I can't make any sense of what Rob is talking about but I'll tell ya about my experiences.
From all the numbers I've seen, a 75 shot will get ya about 100 whp give or take. I love the NOS wet kit that I've been using for several years now. I'm still on the stock block and haven't had any issues at all. The thing with nitrous is that when your bottle is full you have that extra power at just the push of a button. But it costs me $70 now to refill the bottle. Plus if my bottle heater isn't on I'll get mixed results.
With E85 your probably better off because it's 105 octane. So if you can tune for 105 octane and drive around with that all the time, go for it. Where I'm at in California there are no stations that sell E85 which really sucks. But with E85 you need to convert to a better fuel filter that won't get eaten up. If you have the option to go E85 I would say do that instead of the nitrous. So until I have E85 available to me I'll just stay with nitrous.
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stock block on N20 and loving it.
The exhaust side of a 16g is too restrictive for nitrous to work well. In a nitrous motor the amount of exhaust gas is huge, and the tdo5 would hold you back.
But E85+16g's is the sex. E85 will allow you to run a really agressive tune, and run the 16g to the choke limit. Basically extracting every bit of power a 16g can give, while avoiding detonation.
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Kurt - E85, 450's, China GT, AWD conversion
The exhaust side of a 16g is too restrictive for nitrous to work well. In a nitrous motor the amount of exhaust gas is huge, and the tdo5 would hold you back.
But E85+16g's is the sex. E85 will allow you to run a really agressive tune, and run the 16g to the choke limit. Basically extracting every bit of power a 16g can give, while avoiding detonation.
+1
Own that tune in the face.
Seriously, its like race gas but crap for mpgs.
I would just run E85, but there are only 2 stations in New Jersey which makes it very hard. I bought a spare head off someone who ran a 16 and nitrous and he liked it a lot. I don't the 16g would be so restrictive that it wouldn't be worth it to run nitrous. I am very happy with how the car has been running on the 16g, I just want to be over 400whp when I need to be.
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~Mark
97' Evo III 16G Powered Eagle Talon
The exhaust side of a 16g is too restrictive for nitrous to work well. In a nitrous motor the amount of exhaust gas is huge, and the tdo5 would hold you back.
But E85+16g's is the sex. E85 will allow you to run a really aggressive tune, and run the 16g to the choke limit. Basically extracting every bit of power a 16g can give, while avoiding detonation.
Tell that to the Holeshot Performance who run a 250+ shot through a T25 and run mid 10's with it. The exhaust housing has nothing to do with being able to run a nitrous setup or not. There are a lot of people that contemplate doing this on smaller turbo cars. The only real problem I see with you is like me, being front wheel drive, the power is going to be very instant and traction is going to be a major issue. Aside that I really like the idea of using a good streetable turbo for daily driving and adding a 75-100 shot for a little fun. I love E85. LOVE it. But if it is not readily available then I would stick with pump gas. Makes going out of town or on long trip a hassle.
I was looking into going with a bigger turbo, but I just love the 16g's immediate torque and I'd like to make some high hp on it. At this point I was looking into either running E85 or staying on 93 octane and doing a wet shot.
I would run E-85 if you have it available. I drive 100 miles and fill up 55 gal of gas containers so I can run it.
I only run a 50/50 blend with pump gas, and I picked up at least 50 whp according to DSMLink. My 0-60 went down to 3.2 from 3.6 and my 70-90mph went down to 1.6 from 1.8. I am running 23-25* timing right now with 0 knock and I could only get 19-20* before.
Granted the 18g still craps out over 7k rpm, but from 4k to redline it has way more power now.
As for switching to a larger turbo with 16g spool...check out the Holset HX-35. Holset Turbos, PART 6
Tell that to the Holeshot Performance who run a 250+ shot through a T25 and run mid 10's with it. The exhaust housing has nothing to do with being able to run a nitrous setup or not.
That is a RACE CAR. The T25 also doesn't have a 40+lb a min compressor. A 7cm housing is restrictive for a 16g, how is it going to magically flow another 10lb/min worth of exhaust. And like is said before the ratio of reactants to products on a nitrous motor is HUGE!
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Kurt - E85, 450's, China GT, AWD conversion
that doesn't change the point, they run more nitrous, through a smaller turbo than we are discussing. If the exhaust housing really limits it than your point is moot, considering more nitrous and a smaller exhaust housing netting holeshot tens,
Screw nitrous. If you are going to spend the money, i would rather get higher compression pistons if you haven't done so already and run e85 or some other type of high octane race fuel.
Over the years the cost of refilling nitrous will rack up, and if you think about it, it's not like you are going to be using it up and down the street all the time.
Screw nitrous. If you are going to spend the money, i would rather get higher compression pistons if you haven't done so already and run e85 or some other type of high octane race fuel.
Over the years the cost of refilling nitrous will rack up, and if you think about it, it's not like you are going to be using it up and down the street all the time.
Problem being availability here. If he wants to go out of town or doesn't have an E85 station near by it makes it a pain. And then having to switch back and forth between tunes on top of it. Although I love E85 here it doesn't seem to practical with only 2 stations in the state.
Need some people that have done 16g with nitrous... I know they're here somehwere..
My setup was a big 16G with nitrous. I was running 20 psi with a 75 shot with all the supporting mods on a stock motor. I did it for several years now and have loved every bit of it. Except now I have a much bigger turbo but still have the nitrous and the stock motor. My built head is almost done and will go on the car soon.
My experiences with nitrous on a 16g have always been favorable. I've always injected my nitrous into the upper intercooler pipe about 6 inhes before the throttle body so I never ran into any issues at all. It definately hits hard and puts me back in my seat no matter what turbo I'm using. I think the people who are saying 16g's are bad for nitrous are probably not speaking from experience. I only ran the 16g for 2.5 years before I upgraded. So I suppose it might be possible that using nitrous along with 20 psi cut some of the turbo's life expectancy.
So unless I get E85 here I'll continue to use nitrous for the years to come.
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stock block on N20 and loving it.
ok here is the thing my buddies own a performance shop in town were i live....and they mess with nitrous,turbos,ect. we have put nitrous on everything and i mean everything we put a 50 dry shot on a lawn mower lol. but seriously a 75 dry would be great if u really want ot make power do a 100 wet or even a 75 wet. wet makes more power than dry any day. i will be runnin a 75 wet or so on my talon with a t70 but i say go for nitrous buddy u will love every second of it....and it only cost bout 50.00 to get a 10lb bottle filled here. oh yea and my buddy sprays his mustang with a t88 all the time and so does my buddy with a 6.0 2002 camaro with the same t88. get spray have fun is the way i see it. also we have 110 at a gas station here in town to and we can go to the airport and get fuel also....c16
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waylon-90tsi awd **fist-sized hole in block**
I have had both e316g with racegas & nos with (110 octane) and then e85. I ran my e3 with a 50shot and 20psi and up to 27psi but at 27 the motor was not happy 24-25 was about the best. The car was faster on nitrous with lower boost and 110 leaded but not by much. I then found the magic of e85. I started off with a more aggressive tune and continued to lean it out and add timing. Now the car is up to 40psi with cams and an intake and exhaust manifold and would not think of going to nitrous on this setup. (I am maxing out the motor and any more power will kill the stock motor, ask how i know:-(
(RIP 4g61)
If you have the option go e85 do it! This is on my mirage turbo with a 2.0 swap I run 40psi on a daily driver and when ever somebody attempts any funny business on the interstate I dont have to do anything more than floor it. I have my share of 600cc and 750cc sportbike kills too. My power to weight is on par with cars dong 125 in the quarter. Remember this is with a stock motor.
If you go e85 you WILL BE HAPPY! I would have to add this to the death and taxes adage.
Look at his sig... waylon-90tsi awd **fist-sized hole in block** haha.... From my exp with N2O is that once it hits you go alot slower than you were before.. Reason being is that it hits so hard you instantly break your tires loose.. My buddy seriously can;t run nitrous anymore because the traction.. 16g at 23psi and a zex 35 shot(50)... It was rediculous... At the shootout he did a 1/8th mile burnout pretty much.. It is uncontrollable..
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-=John Whalen=-
WH1C w/ .55ar BEP
Well all i can say is when his nitrous hit he would spin in 4th.. he was on shitty tires but still.. If you have quality tires then you should be good but I personally would go with meth and more boost..
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-=John Whalen=-
WH1C w/ .55ar BEP
i Run a T between the Fuel Filter and Fuel rail inlet. I also Run a 75shot on my car, I don't have a 16g so i know it doesn't help but i though i'd put my input. Anyways. something i have learned from putting a units on a turbo cars. Tune your car on the Boost only. Once your done tuning. take out 3-5 degree's of timing and squeeze away. Most people will say that DSMLink has a Nitrous control feature, but it doesn't retard the timing fast enough, or so i've noticed. I rather lose 10-20 horsepower on boost and gain 100 extra on the nitrous and know that the chances of it blowing are less. I would hate to grab the unit and dsmlink not pull the timing fast enough and blow the motor
Need some people that have done 16g with nitrous... I know they're here somehwere..
Some of my experience with nitrous/small turbo:
I ran a 14B/7cm nitrous combo back in 2004 when we did the Grassroots Motorsports $2004 challenge:
started the season with a junkyard motor (literally the head was laying in the grass outside for months)
no machine work..we just slapped it together with new stock hg. (pushed coolant from day 1). But hey, we had to build a car for $2004.00 including the car purchase, so obviously we had no budget for any motor work.
The car was about 3100lb with driver. Went 12.2 @ 108 without bottle in $2004 trim. Tiny PTE fmic, no exhaust, hacked 1g maf,racegas, walbro pump with 450s and stock reg. Our tuning variable was basically boost controller and cutting away maf sensor till it ran good. No AFC, no chip, no budget. 16" street tires, I think they were falken azenias.
We used a generic NOS brand wet kit. The car went 11.7 @ 117 with a 75 shot and 11.9 @ 115 on 50 shot at the GRM race in Florida on pretty poor 60' times. The nitrous kit worked awesome for us and it ran pretty good for pushing 1/2 quart of coolant every run. (I think the motor compression tested in the 130's at the GRM race)
We brought it home, put on 550's/vpc and a set of drag radials on weld drag wheels to run it at the Mitsubishi shootout race at Etown that spring. Went 11.44 @ 118 with I think 110shot nitrous jet and the 75shot fuel jet. The car still had a stock FPR so we tuned the AF via upping the nitrous jet till it ran clean. By this time the HG was wasted and we were overflowing the coolant can every pass.
Then we put a fresh longblock in the car with stock cams/intake. It was eagle rods/wiseco 8.5cr pistons. Same 14B/7cm turbo with stock ic pipes and stick 1g sidemount intercooler. It went 11.9 @ 111 like that for the Shootout stock appearing class (little turbo & no fmic or n20). Motor broke due to Tbelt incident before we could put the nitrous back on
anyway, I know it's a long story but it illustrates in general that a wet nitrous kit can be used very effectively on a small turbo car.
at 50hp jet it seemed to be worth a solid 6-7mph (108 to 115)
75hp jets seemed to took it to 117
110hp jets did 118
the gains need to be taken with a grain of salt due to the headgasket being more blown with every pass, we were likely adding more nitrous and losing half the additional power to lost compression. Literally that 11.44 @ 118 pass at Etown the car was empty of coolant and the HG was gone between the middle cyl. It wouldn't even run enough to get in the trailer.
I bet if we would have put 100shot on the fresh engine, it would have seen 122-123 and 11.0 on the 14b/sidemount.
As far as the 16g turbine housing being too small for nitrous...I think there will always be a diminishing return with how much you can get out of any turbo/turbine housing. But power is power, be it 50hp of compressor airflow or 50hp of nitrous.
If you are running an e316g flat out at 30+psi, Im not sure how much power you will see at the ground adding nitrous to that, but its certainly going to make SOME additional power. Maybe the "50shot" will only be worth 45 due to turbine back pressure. Maybe 75 will only net 60whp and 100shot won't do much more.
It's certainly not like "it just won't work: <-- that's foolish.
I'v have a wet kit on my GVR4 right now that I'm itching to get back to the track and try. With 37/22 50shot jets, Im hoping for a mid 10 @ 130 up from 11.1@123.
But plans may change and I'm thinking of putting the GVR4 back to streetcar everyday use and putting a e316G back on with stock manifolds and tone it down a bit. I'd still use the nitrous with the 16g at the track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnetwork
What is the most common way to tap in for fuel? I thought peopel tapped on a AFPR, but I guess that doesn't make sense?
If you had a stock FPR and stock fuel lines where would you tap?
For a car with the stock fuel filter, lines, and regulator: Buy a B&M fuel filter kit. It's about $20 and has a nice banjo bolt with an 1/8" NTP threaded hole that replaces the top banjo bolt on the fuel filter. You can run the fuel line to the threaded hole instead of the gauge. When you eventually get an adjustable regulator, it most likely will have a gauge port as well.
Nitrous on E316G??
