Balance Shaft Questions

[fmars62]

Hey guys, so I am going to look at this talon soon: 1995 Eagle Talon Tsi 477hp

As it says in the ad the balance shaft belt broke. Now what would be the worst and best case scenarios of damage from that breaking?

How big of a job is it to replace that/fix it?

Also, I heard you can remove it? Would this be a better option?

 

[aajj1987]

well last one I almost bought the balance shaft belt kept coming off even when he was driving it to trade me for another vehicle he called and said he had to put it back on... when he got here and I looked at it the pulley was wobbling. to me that means internal damage avoid like plague... the best advice I can give is jack it up look at the pulley and try to spin it... it should spin and be pretty steady and not wobble.

 

[fmars62]

well last one I almost bought the balance shaft belt kept coming off even when he was driving it to trade me for another vehicle he called and said he had to put it back on... when he got here and I looked at it the pulley was wobbling. to me that means internal damage avoid like plague... the best advice I can give is jack it up look at the pulley and try to spin it... it should spin and be pretty steady and not wobble.

any pictures of where the balance shaft pulley is? where it is located

 

[Cdc1221]

It is under the timing cover so not sure how you can spin it?

 

[WES_393]

If the balance shaft belt broke, the only risk is the belt getting sucked into the timing belt and causing damage. Otherwise the front shaft just wouldn't spin, which would make the engine vibrate badly. The actual "balance shaft" is attached to the oil pump. The front case has to be removed to remove that shaft. It would take maybe an hour to replace the front belt.

 

[synthetek]

well last one I almost bought the balance shaft belt kept coming off even when he was driving it to trade me for another vehicle he called and said he had to put it back on... when he got here and I looked at it the pulley was wobbling. to me that means internal damage avoid like plague... the best advice I can give is jack it up look at the pulley and try to spin it... it should spin and be pretty steady and not wobble.

You cant see the balance shaft belt without removing the crank, pulley, water pump pulley, accessory belts, timing covers etc... The balance shaft belt is not really on a pulley either, its gears. I thing you are referring to one of the accessory belts.

 

[fmars62]

If the balance shaft belt broke, the only risk is the belt getting sucked into the timing belt and causing damage. Otherwise the front shaft just wouldn't spin, which would make the engine vibrate badly. The actual "balance shaft" is attached to the oil pump. The front case has to be removed to remove that shaft. It would take maybe an hour to replace the front belt.

Alright so, if the balance shaft belt broke, the worst thing that would happen is it gets tangled in the timing belt?

 

[Cdc1221]

And possibly cause the belt to jump. Check the timing on it before you buy

 

[synthetek]

Alright so, if the balance shaft belt broke, the worst thing that would happen is it gets tangled in the timing belt?

gets tangled in the timing belt, makes the timing belt break, or skip timing then bends valves, damages pistons, etc................

 

[fmars62]

ahh, i got it. thanks guys. but lets say it didnt touch the timing belt and just that broke. would any damage be done?

 

[Cdc1221]

Depends on how long its been run. With just the back shaft turning, it causes it to vibrate and can cause bearings to wear

 

[synthetek]

ahh, i got it. thanks guys. but lets say it didnt touch the timing belt and just that broke. would any damage be done?

Probably not but it says those are current pics and the timing cover and accessory belts are still on it so it does not look like the owner took it apart to diagnose the belt problem? It wouldn't make any sense to take it apart to check the balance shaft belt and then put it back together without fixing it.

 

[fmars62]

Depends on how long its been run. With just the back shaft turning, it causes it to vibrate and can cause bearings to wear

Causes the balance shaft bearings to wear? If thats the case cant i just buy the balance shaft eliminator kit and just delete them?

Also can someone briefly tell me what a balance shaft is/does. I tried researching it but im still confused.

Probably not but it says those are current pics and the timing cover and accessory belts are still on it so it does not look like the owner took it apart to diagnose the belt problem? It wouldn't make any sense to take it apart to check the balance shaft belt and then put it back together without fixing it.

noo, as of right now it broke then the owner put it in storage in 2006, and it is still broke, selling as is because he has too many project cars.

 

[synthetek]

noo, as of right now it broke then the owner put it in storage in 2006, and it is still broke, selling as is because he has too many project cars.

Yeah but to me it looks like he didn't actually take it apart to diagnose what's really wrong.

 

[fmars62]

Yeah but to me it looks like he didn't actually take it apart to diagnose what's really wrong.

ohhh, ok, i know what your saying, sorry about the miss confusion.

 

[aajj1987]

yeah takes a few to get to not very hard at all my car does not have any timing covers since rebuild. took me 2 hours to do my timing belt without that stuff on there. I keep forgetting other cars still have it. If he took it apart to diagnose he would have fixed it since he went that far. In my opinion I would avoid it just to be on the safe side. about your balance shaft delete remark when the block was out for rebuild on mine the machine shop did the delete for me, apparently he has had multiple experiences with it cause it was all his idea. Ill take a pic and post a video on youtube tomorrow if you want with where It was located it will give you a general idea.

 

[fmars62]

yeah takes a few to get to not very hard at all my car does not have any timing covers since rebuild. took me 2 hours to do my timing belt without that stuff on there. I keep forgetting other cars still have it. If he took it apart to diagnose he would have fixed it since he went that far. In my opinion I would avoid it just to be on the safe side. about your balance shaft delete remark when the block was out for rebuild on mine the machine shop did the delete for me, apparently he has had multiple experiences with it cause it was all his idea. Ill take a pic and post a video on youtube tomorrow if you want with where It was located it will give you a general idea.

is there anything i can look at to know if this would be a good buy or not? because if it is just the balance shaft this in my eyes is a good buy.

and yeah! i would love to see some pictures, i got a general idea of where it is by watching youtube videos.

 

[aajj1987]

I mean if its a balance shaft issue I would tread carefully either way. It could be something minor which I pray it is for you if you get it, or it could be means for a new engine/rebuild. The spinning of the balance shaft would be the main thing I would look for. What I have always done in the past is offer them a check to hold for two days and look car over, they hold the title to. I think spinning that would be crucial make sure no slop and no play. Im only stressing cause ive seen to many of my friends buy dsm's with balance shaft issues only to sell a month later.

 

[fmars62]

I mean if its a balance shaft issue I would tread carefully either way. It could be something minor which I pray it is for you if you get it, or it could be means for a new engine/rebuild. The spinning of the balance shaft would be the main thing I would look for. What I have always done in the past is offer them a check to hold for two days and look car over, they hold the title to. I think spinning that would be crucial make sure no slop and no play. Im only stressing cause ive seen to many of my friends buy dsm's with balance shaft issues only to sell a month later.

i understand, can you please show me a picture of everything i need to check with this, like the balance shafts i need to spin. also, how do i check the timing of the car? thanks.

so what would be the best/easiest way for me to check the timing?

 

[synthetek]

is there anything i can look at to know if this would be a good buy or not? because if it is just the balance shaft this in my eyes is a good buy.

It looks like a clean car but $5500 is too much for a car that's not running and may or may not need to have the engine rebuilt. I would try to get him to come down on the price because even if it is just a a balance shaft belt you are going to have to change the all timing components and water pump while its apart so your already looking at $300 or more to get it running.

i understand, can you please show me a picture of everything i need to check with this, like the balance shafts i need to spin. also, how do i check the timing of the car? thanks.
so what would be the best/easiest way for me to check the timing?

You will have to take it apart to check all that, remove the PS,AC, alternator, water pump belts, remove pulleys, remove timing covers.

 

[fmars62]

It looks like a clean car but $5500 is too much for a car that's not running and may or may not need to have the engine rebuilt. I would try to get him to come down on the price because even if it is just a a balance shaft belt you are going to have to change the all timing components and water pump while its apart so your already looking at $300 or more to get it running.

yeah, i tried to get it for 4k but he said no. he said 5k is the lowest hell go.

 

[Cdc1221]

Dude id pass. I wouldnt give more than 1500-2000 for a nonrunning car. Just too much liability.

 

[aajj1987]

ok lets see if this loads. By the way I am sorry it is a gear I misspoke cause I was in a hurry and didn't type it through. if you look to the left of my balancer there is a small pulley doing nothing, but above that there is a little circle that looks like it has a cap pressed in it. that is where the gear would be. the car will probably have all the covers and stuff on it so it can be a hassle to check but I wouldn't buy it unless you were allowed to check it cause he may be trying to rip you off IN MY OPINION, or may not know whats wrong with it and be telling you what he has been told. sorry about the bad angle I still had tire on and had to take down what looked like a junkyard fabbed skid plate. sorry it took me so long I had a hangover from black valvet

 

[hunkajunk]

When a seller says "its an easy fix", I always ask why he did not fix it himself?

Also, I never believe the "I have too many projects" line because it is always 100 X easier to sell a running car.