Still having coolant burning...

[hypergenesis]

Well I replaced my head gasket and my Turbo as well as re-do my thermostat housing gasket and I am still having white smoke Coming from my exhaust at idle and in reverse. I'm honestly stuck on what it can be. Any input is appreciated

Thanks
armin

 

[LiquidX]

Isn't much left to it to be honest. Did you double check the HG with a leak down test? What kind of HG are you using MLS or composite? Is the coolant getting pressurized or bubbling?

 

[BogusSVO]

Was the head checked for warp?
Was the head surfaced?

Was the head checked for cracks?

 

[hypergenesis]

No cracks and I surfaced it with a razor for the first HG junk thn sanded with 80 then 100 then 150 grit with equal smooth strokes on a 3m sanding block. Used brake cleaner with sanding to get it clean. I still need to retourque it after this heat cycle I plan on retourqing tonight. I've checked the engine 3 times under loads all around for coolant but no signs of leaks.

I can't find a place to borrow a leak down test from autozine and kragen doesn't carry them.

Armin

 

[LiquidX]

No cracks and I surfaced it with a razor for the first HG junk thn sanded with 80 then 100 then 150 grit with equal smooth strokes on a 3m sanding block. Used brake cleaner with sanding to get it clean. I still need to retourque it after this heat cycle I plan on retourqing tonight. I've checked the engine 3 times under loads all around for coolant but no signs of leaks.

I can't find a place to borrow a leak down test from autozine and kragen doesn't carry them.

Armin

You removed the gasket with a razor and sand paper

 

[Funfettie]

turbo center housing or oil cooler if its a liquid cooler

 

[hypergenesis]

I'm also using a felpro composite with arp head studs

 

[luv2rallye]

Have a coolant pressure test done. Rent one like this or have it done at a repair garage: http://www.stant.com/Consumer-Products/Testers---Adapters/Cooling-System/.

 

[BogusSVO]

No cracks and I surfaced it with a razor for the first HG junk thn sanded with 80 then 100 then 150 grit with equal smooth strokes on a 3m sanding block. Used brake cleaner with sanding to get it clean. I still need to retourque it after this heat cycle I plan on retourqing tonight. I've checked the engine 3 times under loads all around for coolant but no signs of leaks.

I can't find a place to borrow a leak down test from autozine and kragen doesn't carry them.

Armin

Do you mean sanded like in this?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/413772-how-clean-head-gasket-surface.html

Did you do this?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341627-how-check-head-warp.html


Now if you did not check the head for warp, the head can still be warped. If the head is still warped, then you need to pull it again and re do the job.

In your thread from last week, you did not mention loss of coolent.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/415892-doing-headgasket-what-else-do-i-need.html

You were changing the HG so a fresh one would be on there when you upgraded turbos.

If you did not have a loss of coolent before you changed the HG, but now do.
That leads one to belive when you installed the HG, you flubbed the install somehow.

A composite should take up the space of .003 warp.

did you step toque the ARP head studs in 3 steps?
did you loosen them then torque them 3 times?

If you are leaking coolent with the new head gasket and sure you did not flub the install, you need to do a coolent pressure test.

 

[hypergenesis]

Do you mean sanded like in this?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/413772-how-clean-head-gasket-surface.html

Did you do this?
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/341627-how-check-head-warp.html


Now if you did not check the head for warp, the head can still be warped. If the head is still warped, then you need to pull it again and re do the job.

In your thread from last week, you did not mention loss of coolent.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/415892-doing-headgasket-what-else-do-i-need.html

You were changing the HG so a fresh one would be on there when you upgraded turbos.

If you did not have a loss of coolent before you changed the HG, but now do.
That leads one to belive when you installed the HG, you flubbed the install somehow.

A composite should take up the space of .003 warp.

did you step toque the ARP head studs in 3 steps?
did you loosen them then torque them 3 times?

If you are leaking coolent with the new head gasket and sure you did not flub the install, you need to do a coolent pressure test.

No I had the same problem before but you are correct I didn't loosen and re tourque them 3 times Ill go do it now and ill update and say whats going on. The problem was there before thats why I changed the Turbo because It was hitting 160k miles and I was lead to believe the turbo was going out.

 

[BogusSVO]

Is your turbo water cooled also?

If it is not, there is no way for the turbo to pass water to be burnt.

You may also want to "by-pass" the TB preheater hoses, to see if the white smoke stops

 

[hypergenesis]

Is your turbo water cooled also?

If it is not, there is no way for the turbo to pass water to be burnt.

You may also want to "by-pass" the TB preheater hoses, to see if the white smoke stops

Its the stock t25 with all lines attached. I only replaced it due to the fact that I thought my old t25 was the reason for the smoke but now its almost worse.

How would you bypass the TB preheater hoses?

Im also going to go re tourque the head as I said I only did it 1 Time and I was waiting for a few heat cycles before tightening it. Its gone through about 3 so im about to re torque the head studs as soon as I drive home. Dumb question do I need to drain my oil? I don't want it spilling out and I am unsure of how high the fluid sits in the head.

Thanks for your help BogusSVO

Armin

Have a coolant pressure test done. Rent one like this or have it done at a repair garage: Cooling System.

Ill see if one of the local auto stores has these for rent. None of them have the stuff for the leak down test.

 

[BogusSVO]

Find the coolent hoses on the TB, pull them off the TB, eithr plug them or loop them together.

Drain the engine, oil and coolent.

This needed to be done before fluids were added.

With burning coolent, it got the HG wet, that is not good.

You can try to retorque the HG, But I doubt it will work

 

[hypergenesis]

Find the coolent hoses on the TB, pull them off the TB, eithr plug them or loop them together.

Drain the engine, oil and coolent.

This needed to be done before fluids were added.

With burning coolent, it got the HG wet, that is not good.

You can try to retorque the HG, But I doubt it will work

Omg are you serious.....

What exactly needed to be done? There was no fluids when the HG was put on and torqued down. I already drained all the coolant and oil in the engine before I put the Head gasket on.

Armin

 

[BogusSVO]

True there were no fluids when you installed the hg.

Now there is.

If the coolent is comming aross the HG to the combustion chamber to be burnt, that makes the HG wet

Water dose not compress

Water is on the HG, absorbed into the HG

When you torque the wet area of the HG, the water will not compress, so you will hit your torque value sooner, than you will on the dry areas of the HG.

The HG will not compress like it needs to, so it can seal properly.

What needed to be done?
To start with check the head for warp.
Streach the ARP studs, final torque, then add fluids.

You uesd a Fel-pro Permatorque composite gasket.
Just like the name implies, Permanet torque
When installed properly, and when the ARP are installed properly, you should not have to pull the VC and "re-torque"

 

[hypergenesis]

So what do I have to do from here? Buy a new HG and redo the whole process?

Also if I drive it softly it doesn't smoke at all.

Just something I observed

Also I searched up this

How to: Install ARP Head Studs and Cometic Head Gasket - Team-2G Mitsubishi Forum

Why doesn't this apply to me?

 

[Calan]

No cracks

How did you check the head for cracks? Was it pressure tested?

 

[hypergenesis]

How did you check the head for cracks? Was it pressure tested?

No visually looked through nothing of the sort. I honestly don't have the time or money to go through every aspect that I would personally like. I honestly had about 800-900$ worth of maintenance just hit my face in a week and its hit my pockets really hard. Along with that most of the time I only have a day or two to have everything done. It took a full 3 days just to do this much with a good sanding and prep work.

Like I said if I had the time and the spare cash I would have gotten the entire thing pressure tested, resurfaced, cleaned and ported a bit for some more flow but Its not that I don't want to I just cant.

Armin

 

[BogusSVO]

How to: Install ARP Head Studs and Cometic Head Gasket - Team-2G Mitsubishi Forum

Why doesn't this apply to me?

To me..
From what I see, the surface conditions of both the head and block
Not doing the ARP strech

That is a HACK job

He also used a MLS HG, not a composite

I would be surprized if thet HG held for any length of time. Even if it was NA I doubt it would last long

I understand that you are low on funds.

I doubt your head is cracked, it is few and far between I see a cracked 4g head

I would at a min take the head in to have it chacked for warp, and have it surfaced. That should be aroud $60

 

[hypergenesis]

To me..
From what I see, the surface conditions of both the head and block
Not doing the ARP strech

That is a HACK job

He also used a MLS HG, not a composite

I would be surprized if thet HG held for any length of time. Even if it was NA I doubt it would last long

I understand that you are low on funds.

I doubt your head is cracked, it is few and far between I see a cracked 4g head

I would at a min take the head in to have it chacked for warp, and have it surfaced. That should be aroud $60

So could I reuse the HG? I'm low on funds but want to keep the hack job work as much as I can away. I've never taken a head to a machine shop but would I have to take everything off the head?

Also I checked my coolant levels and its all the same from two days ago.

Also thanks a lot for your input.

Armin

 

[BogusSVO]

ok, so you are not loosing coolent from the overflow bottle or the Rad?

How many miles since the new HG?

Is the cat still in the exhaust system?

If you are sure you are not loosing coolent, and the cat is still in the car, you may have water/coolent in the exhaust system that needs to be burnt out.

No, you can not reuse a composite HG, or, I would not personally

 

[hypergenesis]

ok, so you are not loosing coolent from the overflow bottle or the Rad?

How many miles since the new HG?

Is the cat still in the exhaust system?

If you are sure you are not loosing coolent, and the cat is still in the car, you may have water/coolent in the exhaust system that needs to be burnt out.

No, you can not reuse a composite HG, or, I would not personally

Literally 60 miles since the new HG.

No cats in the exhaust but sometimes going in reverse it will coat my car with smoke.

The coolant overflow and the coolant from the radiator cap are still at the same levels I just rechecked

Armin

 

[BogusSVO]

Ok.... lets back up for a moment, and get this all sorted out.

BEFORE you replaced the HG

> you had loss of coolent
> white smoke from tail pipe
> changed time belt and compoants.

AFTER you changed the Head gasket

>No loss of cooleant in 60 miles
> Still smokes if driven hard

With it laid out like this
I no longer think the HG is flubbed at this point, since you are not loosing coolent

Go drive it more, keep a close eye on the temp gage and coolent level

You may still have old coolent built up in the exhaust system that needs to be burnt out.

Since there is no smoke if you drive it easy, the old coolent is part burnt out of the exhaust

The harder it is driven, the more heat that is made, and that in turn will heat up the exhaust system further back causing it to smoke.

One last thing, are you sure it is white smoke, no blue tint to it?

 

[hypergenesis]

Ok.... lets back up for a moment, and get this all sorted out.

BEFORE you replaced the HG

> you had loss of coolent
> white smoke from tail pipe
> changed time belt and compoants.

AFTER you changed the Head gasket

>No loss of cooleant in 60 miles
> Still smokes if driven hard

With it laid out like this
I no longer think the HG is flubbed at this point, since you are not loosing coolent

Go drive it more, keep a close eye on the temp gage and coolent level

You may still have old coolent built up in the exhaust system that needs to be burnt out.

Since there is no smoke if you drive it easy, the old coolent is part burnt out of the exhaust

The harder it is driven, the more heat that is made, and that in turn will heat up the exhaust system further back causing it to smoke.

One last thing, are you sure it is white smoke, no blue tint to it?

*When I put the HG on I did the timing belt as well.

*before and after the HG Change same amount of white smoke under the same conditions.

*the temp stays consistant and never over heats

I'm almost 100% sure there's no blue to it I had a few friends check it out but they all see it as white as well. It would make sense about the exhaust when I was my car I rinse out the inside a little as well so for all I know water is sitting in the muffler.

Do you still think I should replace the HG Again because I'm considering doing it again anyways.

Armin

 

[BogusSVO]

you need to do a coolent pressure test, before you pull the head again.