Methonal Injection

[1991_talon]

I run 23 psi on 93 octane on my current setup considering purchasing a methonal injection kit. I have several questions. Is it realistic for daily driving? How much water/ethonal would I typically go through (I get on it quite a bit but not enough to abuse the car)? Would I need a new tune before I turned up the boost?
- Thanks.

 

[b00st3d4g63]

It really depends on your driving style how much you use. If you floor it around everywhere your going to use a lot. Also you will need a new tune. I have a meth kit sitting in my garage that I decided against. I was going to use it but I don't want to rely on that to always work if you know what I mean. I got the kit from my friend for free becUase he blew up his car with it installed. His feed line got kinked and boom.

 

[BigBeans]

I run 23 psi on 93 octane on my current setup considering purchasing a methonal injection kit. I have several questions. Is it realistic for daily driving? How much water/ethonal would I typically go through (I get on it quite a bit but not enough to abuse the car)? Would I need a new tune before I turned up the boost?
- Thanks.

Yes it's realistic for DD.

The amount you consume will vary widely depending on jetting, turn on psi, driving habits, etc.

Yes, you will have to retune the car. It will have too much fuel and not enough timing if you run the tune as is.

 

[ckrell]

its a must if you want more power and e85 or race fuels not a option

 

[1991_talon]

If I run out while driving will it just mess up my timing or mess up my entire fuel system?

 

[Aproductions]

okay so if you run out of it and say you have it set to come on at like 15psi, then just don't hit 15psi and you will be fine till you refill it.

 

[BigBeans]

If I run out while driving will it just mess up my timing or mess up my entire fuel system?

Major detonation. It can definitely cause an engine failure if you hit full boost on a tune requiring meth to be safe, without the meth.

 

[1991_talon]

Major detonation.

How likely is it to run out I mean how much would you consume if you had an hour of pretty high levels of boost?
http://www.jayracing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=193

 

[BigBeans]

How likely is it to run out I mean how much would you consume if you had an hour of pretty high levels of boost?
AEM Water/Methanol Injection Kit [30-3000] - $395.10 : Jay Racing

The kit gives you a low level warning light.

If you run say an m7 nozzle, its 440cc/min and that one gallon tank will give you 8 minutes of meth at full boost.

A smaller nozzle, like an M5 would give you 11-12 minutes from full to empty at full boost.

 

[1991_talon]

Maybe this isnt for me then i enjoy hitting boost and its my DD
Idk im very indecisive im going to look into when I would want mine to kick it in when the low level lights kicks on etc and go form there .

 

[1TireFireTSi]

Maybe this isnt for me then i enjoy hitting boost and its my DD
Idk im very indecisive im going to look into when I would want mine to kick it in when the low level lights kicks on etc and go form there .

Have you considered just going to E85?

 

[turbo tim1]

I have had both snow performance and aem, the aem kit is garbage compared to the snow kit.
It is very practical, the only reason a line would get kinked is because of a poor install.
I have alot of experience with meth injection and I will not run with out it. you can get kits with low level lights that come on when you are low and you can also use the light signal to turn the boost down if you have the safe injection kit, I don't turn timing up I turn boost up. you will not have to retune unless you are running a big jet. I installed a 9 liter res on my car and I don't fill it up very often, I will usually use about 4 liters per tank fuel but I run 4 jets I chose to make a multi port system with my kit as I was running 30 psi on a dual ball bearing 60 trim turbo with cams and a ported head. It is much cheaper than race gas plus it cools your air charge plus it cools your combustion temps and egt's. It also keeps your combustion chambers clean and I mean clean like you just put a fresh motor together clean.

I am a huge fan of it, I don't tune my timing for it even if that would give more power, I use it as a huge safety buffer to keep predet at bay, it allows me to run high boost with out the worry of detonation.

These kits are boost activated, I have mine set to come on at 15 psi and stage on at 2 at 22. when your not on it you don't use it.

 

[oneslowevo]

I personally don't like meth injection as its just another thing to go wrong, especially on a dsm where problems come up quite often. If you run out, you will be running on a tune made for leaner conditions with more boost and probably more timing. <--- not good

 

[1TireFireTSi]

I personally don't like meth injection as its just another thing to go wrong, especially on a dsm where problems come up quite often. If you run out, you will be running on a tune made for leaner conditions with more boost and probably more timing. <--- not good

I wouldn't want to be running Meth on the ragged edge but if you've got it set up like Turbo Tim, it's a buffer to ensure detonation doesn't happen period. With a proper set up, you'll know if something isn't right before your motor melts. I'm not sure what the cost for a real set up like that is, but I've personally seen great gains from ethanol and it cost me a whopping $300 to switch over.

 

[1991_talon]

I have had both snow performance and aem, the aem kit is garbage compared to the snow kit.
It is very practical, the only reason a line would get kinked is because of a poor install.
I have alot of experience with meth injection and I will not run with out it. you can get kits with low level lights that come on when you are low and you can also use the light signal to turn the boost down if you have the safe injection kit, I don't turn timing up I turn boost up. you will not have to retune unless you are running a big jet. I installed a 9 liter res on my car and I don't fill it up very often, I will usually use about 4 liters per tank fuel but I run 4 jets I chose to make a multi port system with my kit as I was running 30 psi on a dual ball bearing 60 trim turbo with cams and a ported head. It is much cheaper than race gas plus it cools your air charge plus it cools your combustion temps and egt's. It also keeps your combustion chambers clean and I mean clean like you just put a fresh motor together clean.

I am a huge fan of it, I don't tune my timing for it even if that would give more power, I use it as a huge safety buffer to keep predet at bay, it allows me to run high boost with out the worry of detonation.

These kits are boost activated, I have mine set to come on at 15 psi and stage on at 2 at 22. when your not on it you don't use it.

So you have the stage two kit? I'm assuming you use the boost juice? How long does a 4 gallon container generally last you at these settings?

 

[LiquidX]

I currently am using a Devils Own universal kit. It comes with a Hobbs switch that you set to which ever PSI you want the pump to turn on at. It comes with a fitting to tap into your windshield washer fluid resivoir.

I'm currently at about 32psi on 93 pumP gas using -20 washer fluid. The brand I'm using is 31% methanol by weight according to the MSDS.

Methanol/water injection is great for a DD. I top my tank (1 gal) off every other fill regardless of where it sits at. Not to mention the stock resivoir has a low level sensor built in BTW.

You can run it without a re tune but you will get the most out of it by tuning as you are adding more fuel (methanol). If you wanted to you can even toto the liquor store and pour in a bottle of 80 or 90 proof alcohol. It's not as good as methanol but it does the trick.

I say go for it!

 

[turbo tim1]

So you have the stage two kit? I'm assuming you use the boost juice? How long does a 4 gallon container generally last you at these settings?

I have never used boost juice, from what I understand that is a mix of nitromethane and something else, it adds hp because of its explosive property's.
Not that it is good or bad, I just never tried it.

I do have a snow stage 2 kit, I use winter wind shield washer fluid good for
-35 Celsius, or you can mix it your self 60/40 water/meth. or what ever mixture you want.

I have a 9 liter tank which is slightly more than 2 gallons, I use between a gallon to gallon and a half between gas tank fills, but I am running 4, 175 ml jets and I have a heavy foot, I boost the car alot because it's fun. Most guys I install the kits for are usually running 16g turbo's and I install a single 375 ml jet they get more mileage out of there meth than I do.

I even have a kit on my vw diesel, it adds about 20 hp and about 3 mpg but the reason I have it on my diesel is because I have seen how it removes carbon off the pistons head and valves. It will also keep the injector tips and glow plug tips clean. I have it on this car for preventative maintenance reasons only.

 

[gusu]

If you can find E100 natural gas methanol its only like 50-60 cents a gallon. It's when you get into corn based methanol it gets expensive.

Another reason to switch is car fires are much less dangerous with methanol. If you don't believe me just look at racing. The main reason some racing events switched was because of the lack of fire from them compared to gasoline.

If I could get natural gas methanol like you can in some places (I know Iowa, Illinois, and California have some) I'd probably drive my car on just that to save on fuel cost every year.

 

[LiquidX]

If you can find E100 natural gas methanol its only like 50-60 cents a gallon. It's when you get into corn based methanol it gets expensive.

Another reason to switch is car fires are much less dangerous with methanol. If you don't believe me just look at racing. The main reason some racing events switched was because of the lack of fire from them compared to gasoline.

If I could get natural gas methanol like you can in some places (I know Iowa, Illinois, and California have some) I'd probably drive my car on just that to save on fuel cost every year.

The "E" in E100 stand for ETHANOL, another form of alcohol, not methanol. Methanol is just as dangerous as gasoline. It's still explosive and the biggest issue with methanol is that it burns clear.

There was a study with E85 that while cheaper per gallon, over a year you spend like $500+ more than with gasoline.

Also the term "natural gas" is usually used to name propane. However brewers yeast forms alcohol (ethanol) during fermentation. I suppose that would be natural as well

 

[turbo tim1]

The "E" in E100 stand for ETHANOL, another form of alcohol, not methanol. Methanol is just as dangerous as gasoline. It's still explosive and the biggest issue with methanol is that it burns clear.

There was a study with E85 that while cheaper per gallon, over a year you spend like $500+ more than with gasoline.

Also the term "natural gas" is usually used to name propane. However brewers yeast forms alcohol (ethanol) during fermentation. I suppose that would be natural as well

yes methanol burns clear but when mixed 50/50 with water there is not that much and it burns off quick, and is of no more danger than winter window washer fluid.
when mixed it does not light that easy, pour some on the ground and light it. It will light for a few seconds then flame out.

 

[LiquidX]

Gusu was referring to higher concentrations if you would have taken the time to read the post. When used as fuel it's straight methanol. It has a higher LEL than gasoline but is still just as dangerous. There is a reason why all companies selling meth kits state to not run more than a 50:50 mix as a warning.

So what is the reasoning for you telling me that methanol burns?

 

[turbo tim1]

Gusu was referring to higher concentrations if you would have taken the time to read the post. When used as fuel it's straight methanol. It has a higher LEL than gasoline but is still just as dangerous. There is a reason why all companies selling meth kits state to not run more than a 50:50 mix as a warning.

So what is the reasoning for you telling me that methanol burns?

I was agreeing that it burns clear and that you can't easily see it in the day light.
My point was that is why you mix it. If I offended you I apologize!

I am pretty sure the reason for the 50/50 mix is because the water lowers your iat's and egt's with out water you are just adding a fuel loosing the benifit of the water.

 

[LiquidX]

Not trying to offend you either but read up a little on methanol injection. There are more positive effects spraying pure meth than there are with adding water.

Also again, companies that sell the pre mixed stuff are avoiding the hazmat fees for shipping out flammable liquids. Which is also why you don't see them selling pure meth either.

 

[turbo tim1]

Not trying to offend you either but read up a little on methanol injection. There are more positive effects spraying pure meth than there are with adding water.

Also again, companies that sell the pre mixed stuff are avoiding the hazmat fees for shipping out flammable liquids. Which is also why you don't see them selling pure meth either.

I am not saying there isn't a positive affect to spraying more meth less or no water.
But I have torn a few engines apart that have been spraying 50/50 and there is almost no carbon build up. My theory is the water does not compress creating high cylinder pressure and that the water cleans off the carbon as a result or side affect. I know meth burns clean but I do not believe it will remove carbon deposits.
when there is no carbon there are no hot spots.

 

[MY1GDSM]

I'm not understanding why the OP starting a new thread to begin with... Theirs plenty to Read on here about methanol which from the sounds of a few people should be doing... As-well OP in the end it's Really gonna come down to your decision on whether to run it or not.

OP I would suggest looking into e85 IMO... I myself believe it's a better option since theirs less to go wrong and your not dealing with Duel fueling,Fail safes, Et Cetera. But I'm biased and I'm sure the next guy that runs meth Injection will say to run it...

I would have to say though with meth injection something as simple as a Hobbs switch failing could cost you a rod out the side of the block...it's best to know not just the benefits of something but the risks...