Need help fast with turbo rebuild!!!!!!

[combatmedic]

So I am rebuilding my 14b and my question is when I put everything back together and I am tightening the nut on the compressor wheel (intake side) is it supposed to be tightened so that the wheel does not spin freely?? Or is the wheel not supposed to spin by turning it?????

Nobody

 

[2GFWDbeast]

Couple of things

1. The wheel should spin freely otherwise you tighten way to tight or did something wrong

2. You really should spend couple extra dollars and have a machine shop rebuild it cause it needs to be balanced by a machine other wise you can blow the turbo very fast.

 

[combatmedic]

according to the write up in the tech section it says you don't have to get it balanced??

 

[wkmitsu]

according to the write up in the tech section it says you don't have to get it balanced??

If a turbo isn't balanced correctly it won't build boost properly.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

def get it balanced other wise you will be buying another rebuild kit

 

[combatmedic]

ok i will do u know how much a machine shop would charge to balance it? Do they put everything back together to?

 

[2GFWDbeast]

They will but it all back together. Um not sure on the price, just call around on monday.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

It's my understanding that you can rebuild a turbo without balancing it IF you precisely mark the orientation of the nut and wheel before you pull it apart. When you reassemble the turbo the marks need to line up and it needs to be torqued the same. I have seen this done successfully to an Evo 8 16g. It has taken 20,000+ miles of harsh abuse since then and still going strong. I have also seen the aftermath of an unbalanced turbo spinning 100,000rpm+ and in those cases you won't have much of a turbo left to rebuild.

 

[wkmitsu]

ok i will do u know how much a machine shop would charge to balance it? Do they put everything back together to?

If you have your own rebuild kit, MAP will clean, balance and reassemble your turbo for $175.

 

[combatmedic]

thanks for the info and I did mark the position of the nut to the wheel so as long as those line up after I tighten it I should be good. Should the wheel spin by hand though is my question.

 

[wkmitsu]

thanks for the info and I did mark the position of the nut to the wheel so as long as those line up after I tighten it I should be good. Should the wheel spin by hand though is my question.

If your turbo doesn't spin freely by hand when you have it reassembled then there is a problem.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

Yes it should spin by hand very easly. If you cant then you tighen it to tight or something else is wrong with the journal bearing.

 

[LiquidX]

Jesse is correct with the alignment if you aligned the nut to the wheel AND shaft. I have rebuilt a few turbos this way with out issues. Are you using a torque wrench to do proper torque on the compressor nut? You installed the internals properly and the oil seals seated correctly in the groove on the turbine side of the center section?

I would say to remove the compressor wheel and see if the turbine shaft spins freely with how it's currently installed. It's possible you just over tightened the nut.

What's the reason for the rebuild? If it's oil contamination you really want to get a good in line oil filter unless yiu feel like rebuildingthis turbo again and potentially the next one.

 

[combatmedic]

when I loosen the nut the wheel spins freely. Am I supposed to tighten the nut all the way or just hand tight then a 1/4 turn more (as per the write up). Even if I leave it so the compressor wheel spins freely than when I put the housing on it and put the snap ring on it makes it so the wheel hits the housing.

I am replacing because I was blowing smoke, when I took the turbo apart the hole in the oil shield had worn alot bigger

 

[LiquidX]

You need to torque it to the proper spec. I would suggest pulling it apart and re seating the shaft assembly to ensure everything is installed properly.

THe mating surfaces need to be clean and free from any foreign material (carbon) and burrs. The CHRA needs to seat 100% flat into the turbine housing

 

[pj91gsx]

There are few factors that can cause it to lock up. Most of which include using the incorrect parts, or assembling it wrong. Let start off which which rebuild kit did you buy?

 

[JusMX141]

If a turbo isn't balanced correctly it won't build boost properly.

def get it balanced other wise you will be buying another rebuild kit

Guys- don't start throwing balance being an issue out there...most of the early 14B's (01010 part number, right-hand threaded locknuts) were component-balanced from the factory, so you can assemble them however you want and the turbo will be balanced as well as it was when you took it apart.

If there are balance grinds on the locknut you should mark the alignment of the nut to the wheel upon disassembly or you risk the turbo being at a further unbalance than if the nut was not ground at all. If you align the two marks upon assembly, there is literally no possible way the turbo can be out of balance unless you broke one of the fins off during disassembly.


I'm voting on there being some type of turbine seal binding issue, or he's using the wrong compressor seal collar.

ok i will do u know how much a machine shop would charge to balance it?

I doubt a machine shop would have a Turbo-Pac.

Do they put everything back together to?

Take a box full of turbo parts to a machine shop and they'll most likely ask if you want them cleaned. Most machine shops would have no idea how to assemble a turbocharger.

If you have your own rebuild kit, MAP will clean, balance and reassemble your turbo for $175.

I've heard there's a guy in the Freelancer section of this site who will do it for less than that, including parts.

 

[combatmedic]

I bought the 50 dollar kit from trader greg or something like that. Its in the parts review section. I made sure the parts I took off were the same as the parts I put on. I am going to take it apart tomorrow and make sure everything is in place and cleaned properly. So I just put the nut on hand tight than torque it down?

 

[rstchris]

Sounds like you forgot to intall the thrust collar or something. It should spin free with the nut loose or tight. Did you compare all the parts that came out with the ones in the rebuild kit? If you are messing with the only turbo you have then leave it to a pro, if it's extra then tear into it and learn about it.

 

[wkmitsu]

I've heard there's a guy in the Freelancer section of this site who will do it for less than that, including parts.

I would've suggested you to him but I thought that he had probably disassembled it without marking it beforehand therefore it would need to be balanced by a very expensive machine, which I'm assuming you don't have in your shop yet.

I didn't know some 14b's could be thrown together without a balance or without marking the alignment, sorry. I believe what I said, "If a turbo isn't balanced correctly it won't build boost properly." is a true statement though. I just didn't want the guy to wreck his turbo.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

IDK im pretty sure anything that is spinning at 100,000 rpms should be balanced with a precise machine. All in all 50 bucks and the time you got into tryin to rebuild it, you can find a 14b for 120 bucks.

 

[pj91gsx]

I just wanted to put my theory out there on the balancing thing.

All MHI parts are balanced individually, the turbos with the grinds on the locknuts means that it was then percision balanced in addition.

reasons for my theory
i was told by a local that has been in to dsms for 13 years plus.. he said it was okay to change parts and it wont hurt the balance.

I put a shaft from a Conquest 12a turbo in an evo3 16g, that had the balanced left hand thread nut originally. When i changed over it made boost fine.

I put a shaft from a 14b, into a s16g with a locked nut with balance marks.. works fine

I had a really awkward 14b, that did work. I went to rebuild it, and the seal locked up, I hit it out with hammer, and it broke the rear seal and mushroomed the shaft. I had to grind the shaft to get the nut on. I still rebuilt it, even though i may have thrown it out of balance. I drove it down the road and couldnt get any boost out of it. I immediately tore it down and saw that it was trying to eat itself to destruction with in and out play.

To conclusion, i think the turbos were balance as individual pieces, and then some were percisely balanced, but i never understood why there arent any marks, and why i have to make my own. When i send turbos to get percision balanced they always mark them clearly. When i take my turbos apart i always mark them clearly before disassemble as well just to keep it percise. I hear they last longer that way. There must be a reason for it.

 

[2GFWDbeast]

Trying to Balance the turbo shaft is similar to aligning tie rods on a car. You can measure it mark it do whatever, but the naked eye still isnt as precise as a machine is. Thats why they make "machines" to do it. You can do what you want read and believe what people tell ya. Its better to be on the safe side and let the professionals do it.

 

[LiquidX]

I guess some people are just nieve about such facts. True it will be "more" balanced but done with the hand marking they may only adjust it a very minute amount that may not when be noticeable at all.

If these turbos truly needed to be balanced then the hundreds of turbos that Justin has rebuilt would be coming back for another rebuild for shaft play (ovaled internals) or broken wheels.

 

[combatmedic]

Well problem solved, I was using the oil shield for a 16g because thats what came in my kit. I cleaned up my old one and used that and now it spins freely and I lined the balance marks up to exactly where they were before hand. My only problem is I broke one of the metal o-rings but I talked to pj91gsx and he is going to send me one.