Is running coolent to a turbo required?

[TSi Kid]

I've heard different things from some of my local friends but is coolent really necessary, or is running oil alone good enough?

 

[Misterbeechy]

well there are some turbos that take water lines as well as oil lines.. im not t sure if its needed to.. so ill stick around see what people tell u.. im running a t25 on my 420a so i will only be using oil lines.. we'll see i guess...

 

[RadDsm]

You don't NEED them, but make sure you let the car idle a bit to cool down before you shut it off.

 

[Tre3zy]

IF your running a Mitsu turbo(14b 16g 20g) then you have to run coolant on them as well but if the turbo is only oil cooled then no.... you just have to keep it turbo time to let it cool down after driving

 

[gofer]

This subject has been and about ALL OVER the internet.

• Should water lines be used on 16g?
• oil cooled big 16g good or bad?
• coolant lines

Do some research on the topic. I personally ran no coolant lines to my small 16g for over a year with a TT set to 60 seconds and had NO problems whatsoever.

 

[Tre3zy]

^ wow i didnt even know that.... i learn something new everyday here

 

[tsi1991awd]

You don't NEED to run the coolant lines. They are there to keep the oil from coking though. You can pretty much just shut the car off right away and get away with it, but most people just let the car cool down anyways. On my 20g, there are coolant ports, but I use no coolant at all....only oil. Turbo timer at 60 seconds.

 

[burkgonzo]

I use coolant and oil to my turbo because thats what it was designed to do and I'm not lazy.

 

[gofer]

I use coolant and oil to my turbo because thats what it was designed to do and I'm not lazy.

I'm not sure lazy is the appropriate word to use here, sometimes the setup just won't allow it. In my case I was running a small 16g with a BEP turbine housing on it. The BEP housing I had didn't attach to the CHRA with a v-band or a c-clip, it used bolts and spacers. The bolts and spacers holding it to the CHRA were in the EXACT same location of the coolant line banjo fittings so whats a guy supposed to do? I believe I actually worked harder than most trying to get the coolant lines to work with that housing but to no avail!

The turbo ran 21psi as a DD for a year and now sits in my closet with no shaft play whatsoever and I never so coked oil doing oil changes. IMO if you TT the car then you won't hurt anything... of course if your just being lazy and don't want to run the coolant lines then thats another story.

 

[JusMX141]

I use coolant and oil to my turbo because thats what it was designed to do and I'm not lazy.

It's not a concern of being lazy or how the turbo was designed to be used. The water is in place to act as a heat sink to prevent rapid cooldown and the problems it causes like oil coking on bearings and seals, as well as turbine blade distortion on gasoline-powered turbo cars that are driven by the uneducated public.

There are reasons not to use coolant- NOT running coolant allows the turbo to be swapped in 15 minutes instead of an hour, especially on MHI turbos which use a v-band to hold the center housing to the turbine housing. Unhook the oil lines, drop the lower intercooler pipe, and take the bolt out of the v-band and the turbo is off the car.

Coolant is not required on any journal bearing turbo as long as a proper cooldown period is allowed...this can be as simple as a trip back the return road at the dragstrip.

 

[gofer]

NOT running coolant allows the turbo to be swapped in 15 minutes instead of an hour, especially on MHI turbos which use a v-band to hold the center housing to the turbine housing.

Yes it does, +1000 to that and an AMEN! Haha. I did three 16g swaps in one day while I was at the track from a small, to a big, to a Evo III 16g just to see if they made a difference. Not having coolant lines definitely made it a quick swap, I definitely left that day with burn marks on the forearms though.

 

[TSi Kid]

Yes it does, +1000 to that and an AMEN! Haha. I did three 16g swaps in one day while I was at the track from a small, to a big, to a Evo III 16g just to see if they made a difference. Not having coolant lines definitely made it a quick swap, I definitely left that day with burn marks on the forearms though.

haha i've done that before but instead of seeing if they made a difference it was to see if they were good
i've got so many scars and burns from my car

 

[enzo5190]

hmmm you learn something new everyday

 

[MidShipCivic]

I'll tell you right now... Turbos/Engines don't-like-heat if you have it run coolant through it non-water cooled CHRA have no place on a high performance engine unless you only run down the strip.

If a turbocharger flow ''this much more'' and doesn't come with it that's their problem.

 

[TSi Kid]

yeah i'm trying to do every little thing to reduce heat under my hood
i've just heard from alot of people who run 16gs that the coolent line block off, running a nt coolent line, is a common mod

 

[Ninja GSX]

I would think that reducing cooling of that center section would have an effect on longevity. It may not be immediate but over the long haul I would think it would make a difference. I certainly hooked mine up when I installed my 16G because it wasn't that difficult.

If you are going to rely solely on oil for cooling your turbo something to bear in mind with an older engine is main bearing wear affects oil pressure. The way to tell if you have worn main bearings is a noticeable drop in oil pressure at idle. From what I learned about the 4G63 they are prone to bearing wear. If you have low oil pressure I could see relying solely on oil cooling as a recipe for disaster.

 

[TSi Kid]

i have a brand new motor with about 6000 miles and a balance shaft elimination kit so more oil pressure their too

 

[TheMitsuGS-T]

i bought my gsx a few weeks ago and it had an hx35 turbo on it and the guy i bought it from had the coolant lines blocked off and it ran fine but i swapped it for a stock turbo since everything else was stock... so now its got coolant goin through it and works just the same

 

[LiquidX]

non-water cooled CHRA have no place on a high performance engine unless you only run down the strip.

And what reasoning is there behind this statement?

Turbochargers have been around for a long time and do you really think that they were water cooled that whole time? Water cooling is relativly new and most diesel applications are not water cooled either.

Not to mention, horsepower wouldn't affect the turbo, most of us DSMers aren't even pushing the limits of the diesel turbos. Holset turbos have been pushed to above 60psi and they are not water cooled. (Yes diesel is colder than gas) You still need a lot of exhaust which will still heat up greatly.


There is NO need for water cooling on any turbo at all. Water cooling is mainly used for factory turbos where the drivers would shut off the car hot to help prevent coking. Let the car idle or drive out of boost for the last 5 min of your drive and you'll be fine regardless of how hard you ran whether your water cooled or not.

If you have provisions for cooling why not use them but it's not mandatory.

 

[Blue Talon Boy]

Depends on the turbo. My Schwitzer is oil cooled only. If the turbo is equipped I would hook em up, personally. You can run them and shut them down just oil cooled, but you run the risk of cooking the turbo. I would recommend a turbo timer set to 60-90 sec to allow it to cool off. Coolant keeps the oil from cooking off.

 

[Ninja GSX]

And what reasoning is there behind this statement?

Turbochargers have been around for a long time and do you really think that they were water cooled that whole time? Water cooling is relativly new and most diesel applications are not water cooled either.

Not to mention, horsepower wouldn't affect the turbo, most of us DSMers aren't even pushing the limits of the diesel turbos. Holset turbos have been pushed to above 60psi and they are not water cooled. (Yes diesel is colder than gas) You still need a lot of exhaust which will still heat up greatly.


There is NO need for water cooling on any turbo at all. Water cooling is mainly used for factory turbos where the drivers would shut off the car hot to help prevent coking. Let the car idle or drive out of boost for the last 5 min of your drive and you'll be fine regardless of how hard you ran whether your water cooled or not.

If you have provisions for cooling why not use them but it's not mandatory.

Your logic is very flawed. For one thing the way I drive my GSX most of my driving is within five minutes of where I am. Another thing is I bought a turbochared car for a reason, if I had to baby it for the last five minutes of every drive or sit and wait for it to cool I would go out of my mind. Why not just get a civic that I can get on the whole way and still have better fuel economy?

The oil they use in diesel engines is different from gasoline engines. Just because they used to design turbo's to only be oil cooled it doesn't mean that it is a good idea to eliminate liquid cooling from one that is designed to be cooled that way and try to rely on the oil system that was not designed for that task.

Liquid cooled turbochargers were designed to enhance durability by preventing coking, which is caused by oil cooking on the metal bearings. Oil only cools the turbo when the engine is running. Turbo chargers heat soak with heat from the cylinder head and exhaust manifold after you shut the engine down. The advantage of liquid cooling is the turbo stays cooler while the engine is running and it continues to cool after the engine is shut down when the turbo is heat soaking. That is why it is a good idea to use it if the turbo was designed to work that way.

edited to remove repeated section caused by website glitch.

 

[LiquidX]

Your logic is very flawed. For one thing the way I drive my GSX most of my driving is within five minutes of where I am. Another thing is I bought a turbochared car for a reason, if I had to baby it for the last five minutes of every drive or sit and wait for it to cool I would go out of my mind. Why not just get a civic that I can get on the whole way and still have better fuel economy?

Then you my friend would be a prime example for a turbo timer user but my logic isn't flawed in that statement. It's true in the fact that if you just drive out of boost for a little before you shut off then there is no need to sit and let it cool down.

The oil they use in diesel engines is different from gasoline engines. Just because they used to design turbo's to only be oil cooled it doesn't mean that it is a good idea to eliminate liquid cooling from one that is designed to be cooled that way and try to rely on the oil system that was not designed for that task.

So aside from detergents and a higher weight, what's the difference between diesel oil and gasoline oil WTF I personally run Rotella 15w-40 which stated diesel AND turbocharged vehicles.

So since my TiAL MVS has liquid cooling ports on there, does that mean it's necessary to run those too

The advantage of liquid cooling is the turbo stays cooler while the engine is running and it continues to cool after the engine is shut down when the turbo is heat soaking. That is why it is a good idea to use it if the turbo was designed to work that way.

Did I say otherwise towards this? I know how liquid cooling is beneficial but it's still NOT required.

Here is another thread dealing with removing coolant from turbos.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/379750-can-i-overheat-my-turbo.html

My post is #10 and pay attention to paragraph #2, it's saying what you already said

 

[gofer]

Like I said in my above post, this topic has been discussed and argued about not only on this forum but on other car enthusiast sites as well.

Scotts right. I could type up another paragraph of the EXACT same information just worded a bit differently so I'll save myself the trouble and just use Scotts post.

There is NO need for water cooling on any turbo at all. Water cooling is mainly used for factory turbos where the drivers would shut off the car hot to help prevent coking. Let the car idle or drive out of boost for the last 5 min of your drive and you'll be fine regardless of how hard you ran whether your water cooled or not.

If you have provisions for cooling why not use them BUT ITS NOT MANDATORY.

 

[JusMX141]

the way I drive my GSX most of my driving is within five minutes of where I am.

Then I suggest you never get a non-water-cooled turbo.

The oil they use in diesel engines is different from gasoline engines.

So what about guys who are currently using diesel oil in their gasoline engines, and have been doing so for years and years? What are the negatives to this other than having a clean engine and well-protected turbo system?

Liquid cooled turbochargers were designed to enhance durability by preventing coking, which is caused by oil cooking on the metal bearings. Oil only cools the turbo when the engine is running. Turbo chargers heat soak with heat from the cylinder head and exhaust manifold after you shut the engine down. The advantage of liquid cooling is the turbo stays cooler while the engine is running and it continues to cool after the engine is shut down when the turbo is heat soaking. That is why it is a good idea to use it if the turbo was designed to work that way.

Then your logic is very flawed, because in my years of rebuilding turbos I've seen many water-cooled turbos that suffer the same oil coking issues that non-water-cooled turbos suffer from. If water cooling eliminated oil coking, then my repair business would probably be cut in half....but it's not.

Hell I've seen stock 14B's that were oil coked inside so badly that there was no way for oil to enter the turbine-side journal. Might even be able to post pics if you're curious.

 

[pboglio]

Hmm....Porsche mentions having had to switch over to water cooled turbos due to a significant number of turbo failures due to oil coke issues. Turbo timing I think is a dubious effort. Heat soak occurs AFTER the motor is shut off. Subaru even goes so far as to have siphon action draw coolant thru the turbo on engine shut off.

So what is being recommended goes against Mitsubishi, Subaru, and Porsche engineering practice, and I think these companies know a thing or two about turbo failures taking into consideration their long and successful history of motorsport racing. Clean synthetic oil, proper oil temps, sufficient oil pressure, and coolant flow are your friends. Overkill is highly underrated.