Manley 300m rods

[95eclipseSlow]

I was looking at these rods. Im going to just go all out with the car. Any input on these? Are they what they are made up to be? They will be going in a 2.3 stroker.

EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Manley Performance Pro Series 300M Alloy Connecting Rods: Mitsubishi Eclipse 92-99 7-Bolt

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Don't waste your money a rods unless it's needed for your goals. Having rods good for 1300hp+ is purely meaningless if they're going in a 400hp car. Manley I-beam or even the cheap Eagle H-beam is good for 700-800 hp.

 

[95eclipseSlow]

Im going all out on this build. I dont think the eagles will hold up with the setup im going with i just want to know some more info on these manley 300m rods. anyone?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

What are your intended to do, a GT42 won't even close to 1300hp. Let's keep this in mind that buying the most expensive components is not going to get what you want. When you get over the 600hp you'll likely face a lot of problems.

 

[95eclipseSlow]

i want the reliability though. on a stroker the rods tend to break sooner and easier. i want something that will be reliable, but still can handle whatever i through at it. Maybe i will just go with the eagle h beams? What do you honestly think they will handle on a stroker?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Who said rods in a stroker will tend to break easier? How do you explain MAPerformance, Slowboy Racing, etc... still use Eagle rods for the basic stroker shortblock? The big question is what are your intended goals?

 

[95eclipseSlow]

Im shooting for around 800whp. i read somewhere on here that strokers put more stress on the rods, and something about torque with the rods?

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Then go with Manley or Crower I-beams not the Manley 300m!

 

[95eclipseSlow]

what sucks is that for 300 more i can just get those 300m rods, but the eagles are so inexpensive.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Okay, if you want then buy them, but you will be needing than money because you'll be facing a lot of problems when you shoot for 800hp. Plus they are a lot of other things you need if you want to get to that level, such as transmission rebuilt, fuel system, FMIC, SMIM, head work, tuning system, etc... which could run you about more than 12 grand.

 

[dacowgod]

The stroker's rod angle is not favorable for high RPM, not necessarily rod strength. Even with the best rods you'll still beat the bearings out of a stroker w/ high rpm.


I have a 2.4 6 bolt stroker in my car w/ eagle h-beams seeing close to 700 AWHP on a dynojet..... I dont spin over 7800 rpm though.

 

[95eclipseSlow]

so if i got the h-beams, some acl race tri-metal rod and main bearings, would it be ok to rev to 8000rpm? how do you make a lot of hp on a stroker? seems like with a big turbo (spools at 500rpm) you will only have about 3000rpm worth of power band

 

[dacowgod]

The stroker helps to lower the spool of a turbo as well as makes more hp/torque because of sheer displacement. A 2.4 is 20% more displacement then a 2.0

I am afraid of 8,000 RPM on my stroker and it is a fully balanced assembly. I hit 8K every once in a while in first or 2nd... but i try not to ride 8k often...

If you want to spin high make a 2.0 ... if you want to spin really high make a 2.0 long rod, or a 2.1 destroked...

The stroker IMO is funner for the street.. The torque is nasty.. i'm making over 600 ft/lb of torque on a dynojet as well..which is an insane torque # out of a 4 cyl.


Keep in mind.. though at those #'s things dont last long.. I blew a built Tre transmission in 2000 miles and 2 launches at the track ;-)


Honestly since you're asking the questions I think you're needing to do a bit more research on the topic...theres alot of good reading and alot of good info in the tech forums and archives. You need to consider clutch + drivetrain as well as head work and all the bolt-on, fuel, and other supporting mods to even make 400 hp... its alot of work and even more money.


to answer your question about spool.

There are tricks to help spool, cam gear adjustment. Oil pressure tuning, displacement, decent header.. nitrous All help spool. on my hx-40 i see 44 psi by 4800-5000 RPM .. The lag is not horrible for the 2.4 IMO because by the time I shift ~7500-7800 i'm still in boost in the next gear..


on a larger frame turbo that is probably not the case

You are right though there are not many turbos' out there that will spool in a reasonable amount of time for 800 AWHP on a stroker. The big power guys "usually" stick w/ a 2.0 and spin to the moon and spray.

 

[95eclipseSlow]

i know what is involved. just wondering about the rev limit. i know what a 2.3 is and how it works i just was wondering, is 8000rpm would be a good rev limit. I like the 2.3 because its good for the track and the street. where can i find 8.3:1 CR stroker pistons? What is the best blade combo to get for the hx40? i know a guy that just blew one at 30psi.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

It depends on the quality of the build, balancing, blueprinting, etc... to determine the what the redline is. It could range from 7800 to 8200, but you're putting your neck on the line if you are wanting to test out based on the builder's word since it won't be covered once you drive away.

The best option is to have either Slowboy Racing, AMS or MAPerformance build a stroker shortblock for you.

 

[dacowgod]

8.3:1 is normally a wiseco 2.0 piston.. Not a stroker piston. A piston manufacturer will definitely custom you a piston to w/e compression ration you want though... Stroker pistons are usually in the 8.7:1 - 9.1:1 that are readily available.

HX-40's best blade combination is the 7/12 i believe for best power/flow .. The 6 blade is not too far off.. 8 blade is even less.


Your buddy blowing an HX-40 did one of 2 things. More than likely he over or under oiled it.

There are instances where Holsets have been known to break shafts on the Cummins forums, HX-40's are more notorious to do this, with the idea that they have bigger wheels (which in turn means more stress) on the exact same sized shaft as an hx-35....... If your buddy broke a shaft .. I suppose he just found the structural weakness of his particular turbo..... It is hard to compare spooling the turbo on a v8 cummins vs a 4 cyl Mitsu.... There are the obvious displacement difference, and the less obvious Diesel is a colder, less "exciting" exhaust, than a hot 4g63 gasoline exhaust...so comparing the failures is somewhat apples & oranges.


Not many people have found Holsets to have mechanical failure running on a 4g63 platform w/o a precursor like under oiling.

 

[96eclipzGsT]

Read this thread it might help you with your goal.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/346170-advantages-2-1-stroker.html

 

[daren_p]

Before you go any further with your 800hp goal, the most important consideration is money, how much are you planning on investing in this project? Lots of guys come on here saying they have a huge hp goal & don't have half a clue on how to get there & wonder why people flame/don't give them useful info.

If you don't have a problem sinking the cost of a new vette into this build (even if you don't spend that much initially, it will eventaully add up to that having to replace things that break because they weren't upgraded enough origionally or just regular breakages you will see with that kind of power) then continue. If thats not in your budget, now is a good time to re-think your goal to something more resonable (450-600whp) which is more in the budget of most tuners.


These rods are way overkill for 99.9999 DSM'ers out there, which is why my reply.

 

[95eclipseSlow]

how much money would a 600-650whp build come out to? im just going to start with 600-650whp and run that for a while then save up and build something that will take more. what will i need to make 600-650whp on a 2.3? can i get there with an hx40 and bep mitsu housing? or will i need to go t3 hx40?

 

[daren_p]

There's really is a tonn of factors to consider, so to try & give you a price to reach that specific goal, is probably not to useful. I'm sure there's guys on here (we all know how cheap DSM'ers are ) that will say they did that with a 5K budget. Now on the other end of the scale, they'll be guys that said they've spent 30K+ to do the same thing. Are you doing all the labour yourself? If not, that right there will take a big chunck of change. I have no idea what a shop would charge (as I don't let shops touch my car) but to do that sort of build, properly, I don't think you'd have a hard time racking up a 5-10K bill in Labour alone.

Really depends on the quality of parts you use & how through your going to be. Lots of DSM'ers take the cheap way out & then complain that the car isn't reliable or wonder why it breaks constantly. Even 600-650 awhp is a big goal, yes its defently more budget friendly vs an 800+ whp build but you will still break things at that power level, if you do intend to drive/race the car. Personally I'd keep it to the 500-550whp if you want to keep things fairly reliable & still make a complete joke of 99% of the other cars on the road/pull some nice times at the track.

I don't know much about the Holset turbo's but with a 600+ hp goal, there's no way I'd personally be thinking about a bolt-on housing.

 

[1gDSM4g63]

Exactly what daren_p said. If you no what your doing and build it yourself it be as little as 5 grand, but under your circumstances it cost at least 10 grand plus labor. Not mention, if you stick with a HX40, 600hp+ is possible but you'll next to find a superb tuner that know the ins and the outs DSMs.

 

[maperformance]

Although I'm not familiar with the 300M Manley rods, I can tell you that we had a car make over 700whp on Eagles with a 2.3l stroker And if you're looking for something cost effective that will hold anything you can throw at them, we use these in this

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

​

 

[JEFFREYCASTGSX]

Just so you know, when your at 600whp levels your gonna have to have a lot of parts to back the number up. Your gonna need a lot of fuel, at least 1250's,(and thats just on regular gasoline), at the same time your gonna need a fuel pump BIGGER than the regular walbro, more on the lines of a dual fuel pump setup complete with ALL an lines and of course a good AFPR. For motor your gonna need more than just the bottom end, for your top end, your gonna need some 280 cams to feed the 2.3, and for 280 your HAVE to HAVE some good springs. Next is turbo, you need a good flowing turbo. Somehwere along the big HX40, a 35r, or maybe a 6262(im not implenting one or the other, there just suggestions). What about a manifold(if you dont want a bolton turbo), what about a wastegate? Dont forget oil lines. You then need a FMIC and IC pipes to match the setup. You will break a tranny at that power level(t-case?), and you will need that highest level rebuild anyone out there offers(no not a dogbox). ACT clutches at those power levels are ridiculous, time to hit up a vendor for a twin disk. How are you gonna tune? Its possible to create a 600whp car, but just know that it will take a lot sweat, blood, angers, tears, and last MONEY, did i mention MONEY. If a shop builds your car then the money spent will double. Oh yeah i think i forgot to add something....

 

[dsm-onster]

how much money would a 600-650whp build come out to? im just going to start with 600-650whp and run that for a while then save up and build something that will take more. what will i need to make 600-650whp on a 2.3? can i get there with an hx40 and bep mitsu housing? or will i need to go t3 hx40?

.55 a/r bep housing has done 685 whp and 10s @ 140 with 4psi less boost than on the dyno. The bolton hx40 is all the turbo you need to make a good 600whp setup easily without a superb tuner. No internal gates allowed. And do yourself a favor and get the FP race exhaust manifold and an o2 housing upgrade. Even though the hx40 that's done nearly 600whp can be bolton, that doesn't mean you should use the restrictive stock manifold and o2 housing. Fortunately the FP race manifold is a very high flowing piece that still has the MHI flange to use the faster spooling .55 a/r housing for the hx40.

You will be eating transmissions at this level. Weekly, and sometimes daily. Even with a welded center differential, MT-90 oil, a tranny cooler/pump. If you don't prelaod the drivetrain every time you play, you break it. 3rd will go anyway on a hard run, unless you figure out how to SLOW the spool in that gear. There's a few things you can do with ecmlink and the egr solenoid. Ultimately, you'll need a tightly shimmed transmission with treated/polished gears. IOW a 2500-3000 built tranny. . . Any six puck clutch disk should be fine for this level. And any thing comparable to an ACT 2600 or better should be ok for a pressureplate.