Building a race car - need some guidance

[604CruisinCroat]

Hello

I have aquired a 1992 Tsi awd and it will be my project.

My goal is to make an all around great race car.....be it drags, autox and road racing. I would like to keep the block stock for now and work with the head.

I am mechanically inclined but I need input from people with experience in building these cars.

I want to know what turbo would best suit for what I am going to be doing. I was looking at the evo3 16g but wouldn't mind something that made more power, but still spooled pretty quick.

I want to know what I should upgrade in my valvetrain and what cams I should get. I was thinking HKS 272s.

My car needs a fuel pump so I was leaning towards a Supra TT pump with the full re-wire along with an afpr (I need a recommendation on which one to get as there are many out there).

Also, I want to run DSMlink with a GM 3 inch maf and maft.

If anybody can help me out with this that would be great!

PS - I made this posting because I want some valuable input before I start spending money.

Cheers.

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

What are your power goals? Because the 16g Evo3 is rated to over 400+ HP.

 

[604CruisinCroat]

What are your power goals? Because the 16g Evo3 is rated to over 400+ HP.

I'd like enough power to be able to do 10's in the 1/4.

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

I think you should be fine on an evo3 then. And you should look into Brian Crower 272 cams

 

[604CruisinCroat]

I think you should be fine on an evo3 then. And you should look into Brian Crower 272 cams

What about a 20G?

 

[GsXdSmKingGsX]

Good lord you could do that too! What supporting mods do you have? And make sure you do all maintainence first!! Probably want a decent front mount and a kevlar timing belt or ARP headstuds!

 

[604CruisinCroat]

Good lord you could do that too! What supporting mods do you have? And make sure you do all maintainence first!! Probably want a decent front mount and a kevlar timing belt or ARP headstuds!

Ok i'm not that big of a newb...I know my stuff I just don't want to end up buying the wrong parts!

 

[My1GLaser]

I'd like enough power to be able to do 10's in the 1/4.

IMO, an Evo16g isn't going to get the average DSMer into the 10s especially not on the stock CR bottom end.

I would look into a Holset HX35. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html I don't know if the spool is quick enough, but it would seem to be able to serve you well. The HX-40 should def get you into the 10s, but thats probably a little big for the other racing you want to do.

I have DSMLink, and the great thing is how much timing you can add below the boost threshold to spool the turbo quicker. I am running about 24* up to 3500 rpm, down to 19* by 4500, then back up to 22* by redline. I am in boost as soon as I touch the gas in any gear but 1st, which takes a tad longer. The car has great street manners except for the gas mileage, but its only a weekend car.

A 20g is quite laggy from what I understand and kind of disappointing for the power output, but I have no personal experience. I am running the FP18g6sl2, which reaches 28 psi by 3800-4000 in 3rd.

Get an Aeromotive AFPR.

Why not drop in a Wally 255HP and be done. They are good for around 500 HP rewired.

There are better cams that HKS 272s especially for the price. Search a little bit, and you should find that other 272-style cams have performed better. I'd put in BC 272s before I bought a set of HKS.

Your valvetrain doesn't need upgraded unless you plan on revving those 272s over 8000. But if you have the cash then a lighter valvetrain and stiffer springs are a good idea. You can get a spring/retainer kit for about $225.

 

[Mindslayer]

IMO, an Evo16g isn't going to get the average DSMer into the 10s especially not on the stock CR bottom end.

I would look into a Holset HX35. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/327647-holset-turbos-part-6-a.html I don't know if the spool is quick enough, but it would seem to be able to serve you well. The HX-40 should def get you into the 10s, but thats probably a little big for the other racing you want to do.

I have DSMLink, and the great thing is how much timing you can add below the boost threshold to spool the turbo quicker. I am running about 24* up to 3500 rpm, down to 19* by 4500, then back up to 22* by redline. I am in boost as soon as I touch the gas in any gear but 1st, which takes a tad longer. The car has great street manners except for the gas mileage, but its only a weekend car.

A 20g is quite laggy from what I understand and kind of disappointing for the power output, but I have no personal experience. I am running the FP18g6sl2, which reaches 28 psi by 3800-4000 in 3rd.

Get an Aeromotive AFPR.

Why not drop in a Wally 255HP and be done. They are good for around 500 HP rewired.

There are better cams that HKS 272s especially for the price. Search a little bit, and you should find that other 272-style cams have performed better. I'd put in BC 272s before I bought a set of HKS.

Your valvetrain doesn't need upgraded unless you plan on revving those 272s over 8000. But if you have the cash then a lighter valvetrain and stiffer springs are a good idea. You can get a spring/retainer kit for about $225.

Great advise for him. Since, he wants to be able to drag race and autocross as well. With great tuning he'll be able to do both with that turbo. I'll go with the HX35 with FP2 cams and walbro 255 rewired will work fine. Since, you are staying with the stock 6 bolt compression, if I was you I'll invest in a set of Cam Gears to assist in the spool of that turbo when you want to autocross.

 

[delta448]

Alright, so maybe there's a thread floating around here with a few posts where some select few have been able to push 400whp and run 10's on a 16G or even 11's on a 14b. THIS IS NOT TYPICAL.

Most guys with a fair amount of experience can tune a 16G equipped car for ~350awhp and run low 12's or high 11's on a good pass in an almost full weight car. That's impressive enough and plenty fast for most of us that still drive on the street. The 16G is roughly the right turbo size for about 90% of us, but let's not further inflate anyone's expectations of the already legendary little snail.

If you're serious about going for 10's, you'll need to either completely gut the car or step up to a larger turbo. Think about a Holset if you're on a budget.

Why not set your goals a little lower? A 10 second 4 cylinder is not usually a very streetable car, let alone a good autocross car (where spool speed really matters). A low 12 second quarter is fast for an autocrosser.

Post #8 above by My1GLaser contains some very good advice.

 

[Tenshi_1G_Talon]

first step for the head when you get your new cams should be new springs and retainers. Any cam bigger than 264 you should always replace retainers with titanium units because 272s or bigger will pound the OEM retainers out and you can drop a valve. brian crower would work great. the 16g turbo should bolt right up to your stock exhuast system. Not like you'd keep your stock system.

 

[Tenshi_1G_Talon]

Also if you want a steady fuel pump and not have to fuel cell your car for when your on the street i'd suggest the "full blown dual pump hanger" for your tank, keeps your stock tank and you can choose 2 HO pumps without having 1 HUGE pump. you can find this pump in the dsm section at streettunedmotorsports.com

 

[projecteclipse2]

Making a dsm an 11 sec car is a farely simple goal
An evo3 16g is all you need. Anything more is overkill. The fact that its a light car and awd is even better. Idk about this so correct me if im wrong but 400-500hp should put you in the tens with it being awd i am also taking in consideration that you know how to drive it
like others said look into the walbro255 pump and some injectors get a descent fmic.
This guy that i went to school with had a 93tsi and ran stock internals and upgraded the fuel system and he also upgraded to the evo3 and he was at around 375awhp

 

[604CruisinCroat]

Thanks for the advice everybody.

I will look into that Holset turbo.