running E85

dan2288 · 04-07-2009, 07:22 AM

So I have a keydiver chip made for 880cc injectors and 93 octane. Will my car run ok on E85 and that chip? I only plan to run it once in a while since the station is kinda far away. Im really just looking for the knock resistance of the fuel. Ill be able to run about 25 psi on the 16g without worrying.

JayRolla · 04-07-2009, 07:30 AM

You have too have two seperate tunes to run e85 and pump. There is an average of 30% more fuel needed when tuning with e85. So the answer is no, you cant just through it in. You will burn up a valve.

dan2288 · 04-07-2009, 08:20 AM

would it be ok putting 1 or 2 gallons to a tank of 93? Would it even make a difference?

donniekak · 04-07-2009, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan2288

would it be ok putting 1 or 2 gallons to a tank of 93? Would it even make a difference?

Not much, of a difference. But when you use enough of a mixture to make a difference you have to add fuel with some type of fuel controller. Your best bet would be to run race fuel when you want to turn up the boost.

kottyking · 04-07-2009, 11:08 AM

Why not burn yourself another chip?

DSMsOwnYourV8 · 04-07-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donniekak

Not much, of a difference. But when you use enough of a mixture to make a difference you have to add fuel with some type of fuel controller. Your best bet would be to run race fuel when you want to turn up the boost.

Why is this? Race fuel is an even higher octane than E85

jrohner · 04-07-2009, 11:35 AM

Before I changed over to E85, I added a couple gallons to each tank and it worked great.

If you wanna run that chip on both fuels, you will need a way to add fuel for the lower AFR of E85. Stoich on E85 is 9.765 vs gas being 14.7. If you switch to E85, you'll never want to switch back to gas.

dan2288 · 04-07-2009, 01:32 PM

yea, I just hope they get e85 in my area. The closest station that carries it is 25 miles away.

deflator · 04-07-2009, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSMsOwnYourV8

Why is this? Race fuel is an even higher octane than E85

E85 contains roughly 70% the energy of gasoline per volume. So roughly 30% (in my personal experience, closer to 20%) more fuel is needed for the same boost level. But you can make up for that a little by running it leaner than gasoline. I've gone as high as 14:1 (gas AFR) at WOT and 22psi 22* timing with 0 knock when a line blew off my boost gauge. On gas that would have been bad, on E85 it just felt sluggish with the huge leak.

Also R+M octane isn't the whole story with alcohol based fuels, they also absorb lots of heat, raising the effective octane from 105 to somewhere closer to 110.

cfriddle · 04-07-2009, 02:18 PM

Don't forget about your fuel system!! You can't just poor it in and go. Parts like your fuel rail need to be anodized to be safe.

deflator · 04-07-2009, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfriddle

Don't forget about your fuel system!! You can't just poor it in and go. Parts like your fuel rail need to be anodized to be safe.

Bull, people have run it on stock rails for years. It certainly didn't hurt mine any. It is NOT as corrosive as methanol. Most pump gas has 10% ethanol already

My1GLaser · 04-07-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan2288

yea, I just hope they get e85 in my area. The closest station that carries it is 25 miles away.

Damn. I drive 30 miles one way to work every day. I would consider that close to me, since the closest one is about 100 miles right now.

You can look into adding Toluene to your fuel if you are interested. I am going to add 1 gal Toluene to 4 gal of 93 pump and I will have just over 97 octane in my tank. Its really only my weekend car, so its not a big deal to mix it up once every 2 weeks or so. I plan on mixing it up this weekend and giving it a try. Toluene is in gasoline already, and a 20% mixture shouldn't cause any problems from what I have researched. I am getting the good stuff at Sherwin Williams for about $7/gal.

I can't get unleaded race gas at a reasonable price around here and I don't want to run the 110 leaded at the local station cause I am going to run this mix all summer if it works ok.

95GSXCO · 04-07-2009, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfriddle

Don't forget about your fuel system!! You can't just poor it in and go. Parts like your fuel rail need to be anodized to be safe.

Oh please dont tell me we are starting that again

. The only down sides that SOME of us are having is the black gum on the injectors.

deflator · 04-07-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My1GLaser

Damn. I drive 30 miles one way to work every day. I would consider that close to me, since the closest one is about 100 miles right now.

You can look into adding Toluene to your fuel if you are interested. I am going to add 1 gal Toluene to 4 gal of 93 pump and I will have just over 97 octane in my tank. Its really only my weekend car, so its not a big deal to mix it up once every 2 weeks or so. I plan on mixing it up this weekend and giving it a try. Toluene is in gasoline already, and a 20% mixture shouldn't cause any problems from what I have researched. I am getting the good stuff at Sherwin Williams for about $7/gal.

I can't get unleaded race gas at a reasonable price around here and I don't want to run the 110 leaded at the local station cause I am going to run this mix all summer if it works ok.

Yeah, I think that's all that is in those super special "octane booster" bottles you see next to the register at the autoparts store. Paint thinner

Xylene is better but I think it costs more. F1 cars of the 80's used this stuff. They had 1.5L 8 cyl turbo engines running 70+ lbs of boost and making 1500hp...yeah it's like 138 octane or something

dsmmatt28 · 04-07-2009, 05:03 PM

Does this answere your question..457hp/400tq on E85 mix His chip was made for 93. No other adjustments were made. Just got rid of a little detonation so he could run more boost.

dsmmatt28 · 04-07-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfriddle

Don't forget about your fuel system!! You can't just poor it in and go. Parts like your fuel rail need to be anodized to be safe.

This not true.. I ve been running e85 for about a year now my buddie has been running it for at least 2years now. Boht of us have been on straight e85. The only thing I have done is run a upgraded earls fuel filter. Im running 1250cc with twin 255 wallys. Stock fuel lines.

jrohner · 04-09-2009, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95GSXCO

The only down sides that SOME of us are having is the black gum on the injectors.

I saw the same thing on another forum but the guy WASN'T running E85, so that may not be the right thing to blame.

jrohner · 04-09-2009, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deflator

Bull, people have run it on stock rails for years. It certainly didn't hurt mine any. It is NOT as corrosive as methanol. Most pump gas has 10% ethanol already

No doubt, it goes right with the comments of people telling others that they NEED 1000+ cc injectors for 300 hp on E85

.

cfriddle · 04-09-2009, 09:12 PM

Sounds like I stand corrected? I guess there is some other reason car manufactures void vehicle warranties if you run more than 10%. The U.S. department of energy must be wrong to about its corrosive properties? The most interesting thing of all is how we complain that there aren't more stations around for us to get it from, ever wonder why? Might look into it!! Might have something to do with manufactures of e85 not testing the corrosive properties of it? I know it postponed most of pump installations for 18 months and created the need for a lot of pump upgrades not only to nozzles but underground pipe, and hoses! Somehow i still think it would be a great idea to look into hard anodizing. I think I'd like to have my car run for more than a couple of years short term testing doesn't prove long term wear. Say no to corrosive contamination!!! Just a thought

toofast82 · 04-09-2009, 09:21 PM

I had a question for guys that have been running e85 for awhile. I see differences with seasons with e85, e70. Do you feel the need to take out some fuel when running e70 versus e85?

Ravenous · 04-09-2009, 09:29 PM

Personally I don't, but I don't tune on the edge like a lot of people and I don't go WOT all that often. I'm sure you'll get better performance if you do tweak it seasonally.

toofast82 · 04-09-2009, 09:33 PM

What do you notice as far as any a/f changes?

DSMsOwnYourV8 · 04-10-2009, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfriddle

Sounds like I stand corrected? I guess there is some other reason car manufactures void vehicle warranties if you run more than 10%. The U.S. department of energy must be wrong to about its corrosive properties? The most interesting thing of all is how we complain that there aren't more stations around for us to get it from, ever wonder why? Might look into it!! Might have something to do with manufactures of e85 not testing the corrosive properties of it? I know it postponed most of pump installations for 18 months and created the need for a lot of pump upgrades not only to nozzles but underground pipe, and hoses! Somehow i still think it would be a great idea to look into hard anodizing. I think I'd like to have my car run for more than a couple of years short term testing doesn't prove long term wear. Say no to corrosive contamination!!! Just a thought

I don't think the availability of pumps has anything to do with testing, I think it really comes down to economics.

The Chazz · 04-10-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deflator

Yeah, I think that's all that is in those super special "octane booster" bottles you see next to the register at the autoparts store. Paint thinner

Xylene is better but I think it costs more. F1 cars of the 80's used this stuff. They had 1.5L 8 cyl turbo engines running 70+ lbs of boost and making 1500hp...yeah it's like 138 octane or something

That's awesome someone knows about mid 80's F1 car.

The BMW motors were on/off switches....no power......then BAMMM!

Sweet ass stuff