[RESOLVED] Sudden Shifting Difficulties [Broken Clutch]

[dsmd1]

Hello everyone,

First, I would like to say that this is my first threat and I am only resorting to creating this because my shifting problem seems to be unlike the dozens of others I have read about.

The story:

Late last night I was driving home, car was running perfect and was having no more difficulty shifting then it had the last five months I have owned it. Keep in mind it was probably -35 degrees Celsius and when i say no more difficulty then the last five months I mean that it has always been a little tight going into gears (nothing super noticeable.) Anyways, I was sitting at a turning light and when it went green I proceeded to go forward, everything seemed good, I was not gunning it but I did allow the RPMs to get to approximetly 4500 before shifting into second because I needed the lane the guy beside me was in (it was a dual turn lane.) Right after that my problem began.

Symptoms: Hard to shift into all gears.

First: Goes in smoothly as long as I am stopped, not too sure about when moving because I never downshift into first.
Second: Very hard to push into unless I have double clutched, then easier, but still more difficult then before the suspect turning light.
Third: Same as second, except I have found it will grind about 1 in 5 shifts, all the rest it is like shifting into a wall, no budge.
Fourth: Same story as third.
Fifth: More difficult to go into, helps to double clutch. Has not grinded on me yet.
Reverse: Seems unchanged, same deal as first.

Basically any help anyone can give me would be much appreciated, what I have tried:

-Car shifts into all gears when not running (without using clutch)
-Car shifts into all gears while running (clutch engaged)
-Arm on master cylinder is adjusted so that clutch is fully engaging (has not leaked since I replaced it about two weeks ago)
-Car does not feel like the clutch is not fully disengaging, no movement in first with clutch in (even when revved)

After some test driving, another side note is that if I double clutch up shifting is fine, no such luck on the downshifting, it is near impossible.

So I guess my question to all of the knowledgeable people on dsmtuners is:

What is going on ? Could it possibly be a bad clutch (even though I have not noticed it slipping) or possibly something worse, such as worn synchronizers?

Thanks for all the help, and sorry about the long winded post, wanted to provide as much information as possible!

- Dsmd1

Just to add a bit more..

Car shifts MUCH easier (still not the same as pre-turning light) but easier when in lower RPMs.

IE: when im cruising at 3k rpm in fourth and shift into fifth.

Thanks in advance for any tips or suggestions!

- Dsmd1

 

[bpe121212]

I am not sure if this will help, but it is worth considering the following three steps if you have not already tried them:

1.) thoroughly bleed clutch system and flush out old with new fluid.

2.) adjust clutch pedal as described by Mitsubishi or better yet as described by Jacks transmissions tech video: Transmission Videos

3.) Check that both of the shifter cable rubber bushings that connect at the select levers on the transmission are still in good shape.

4.) I have discovered that the Mitsubishi Dia Queen transmission Oil (53717) is the best I have tried in regards to how smooth the gears shift.

If none of these help than a worn clutch or less likely syncro's may be the culprit.

I hope this helps.

Best of luck

 

[No_Skillz]

BPE has some good suggestions. Since the transmission was shifting fine previously, it's highly unlikely that all gears developed a problem at the same time. I would look into your hydraulic system. Check the rod on the master and the slave for signs of leakage, replace and bleed as necessary.

 

[jrohner]

It sounds like it's time for new master & slave cylinders. Bleed the system thoroughly to get any possible air out and to get new fluid in; if that doesn't help much, get the new master & slave.

 

[dsmd1]

Thanks!

I have tried most of what you posted. (bpe) However, the video was very informative, I may have adjusted my master cylinder incorrectly, so I am going to go and see now, I will report back if it works!

-Dsmd1

 

[dsmd1]

Alright,

So i went outside and checked to see if my car would move when revved in first with the clutch engaged, it did not. This means that the clutch is probably disengaging sufficiently, so that is not the problem.

I also checked(again) the fluid in my clutch master cylinder, the fluid seems to be where it was when I replaced the master cylinder two weeks ago. However, it is much dirtier now, I will check to see if the slave cylinder needs replacing tomorrow, as well as thoroughly bleed the clutch again.

A couple questions..

1. For some reason I was under the impression that all the gears used the same synchronizer, this is not something that someone has told me. But, something I had assumed from looking at pictures of our tranny on vfaq. Is there smaller synchros for each gear and not just the large one?
2. For the slave cylinder to be going bad, would it be leaking fluid? And, I can pinpoint when all of my problems began, which led me to believe it was not a hydraulic problem, since those NORMALLY happen slowly.
3. In the video from jacks transmissions it said that the slave cylinder adjusts as the clutch wears, is it possible my (stock, as far as i know, car has 80k miles on it) clutch could have worn past the point at which the slave can adjust?

Thanks again for all the responses!

-Dsmd1

 

[dsmd1]

Update:

Well, today I bought a new slave cylinder, installed it and bled the system thoroughly. I now have a new master and slave cylinder bled sufficiently with the proper adjustment on the clutch under the dash. Car is still showing the same symptoms.

Just to reiterate:

-Car does not creep forward when in first with clutch engaged, even when revved to redline.
- Car is notchy going into all gears when moving, fine going into all gears when sitting with clutch in and when sitting with engine off and clutch out.
- Can does not downshift at all, feels like shifting into something solid, not a gear WTF.


Pretty much stumped at this point.. is there anything else I can try before I go out and buy a new clutch, and if that doesn't fix it, rebuild my transmission?

Thanks in advance for all the help, or even guesses !

-Dsmd1

 

[92AWDHX40]

find out for sure before a rebuild check the linkage.

 

[UGOT8UP]

Try this, on a flat level surface, engine off put you car in 1st gear, clutch in, start engine you will probally notice the car moving.

My car was doing the same as your's, my TOB was hanging up and my pressure plate was warped.

 

[dsmd1]

Alright I will try that, but wouldn't that basically be accomplishing the same thing as revving the car to redline while in first with the clutch in?

Thanks again for the response!

- Dsmd1

 

[UGOT8UP]

Alright I will try that, but wouldn't that basically be accomplishing the same thing as revving the car to redline while in first with the clutch in?

Thanks again for the response!

- Dsmd1

Mine would'nt do that, only when the engine if in gear while cranking. I noticed it doing while starting one morning

 

[dsmd1]

Unfortunately, I checked to see if it would roll while cranking, no such luck (was kind of hoping this might be the problem So i continue to be stumped..

Anyone else who happens to take a look at this thread post your ideas!

Thanks again,

-Dsmd1

 

[frankenstein406]

if all else fails go to a mechanics shop just say cars acting funny can i get a estimate then just dont come back might give you a better idea of the problem good luck

 

[dsmd1]

Yea maybe... I prefer to work on my own stuff though.

So anyways, another update:

The disengagement problem has continued to get worse, at this point I have ordered an ACT 2100 and we will see if that fixes it.

Since the clutch seems to be getting worse each day now I have confidence that it is in fact a clutch problem (possibly broken fork, something along those lines)

I'll post back if this is indeed the problem so that anyone who has these symptoms in the future will not need to start a new thread!

- Dsmd1

 

[Hcaruso4]

your transmission may have become loose, that is what happened to mine

 

[evileclipse909]

Loose?????WTF
You should also shim the pivot ball While you're in there replacing the clutch.

 

[USCG_97gst]

Loose tranny?!?

 

[dsmd1]

**UPDATE**

Thank you to everyone who attempted to help me diagnose my problem!

I managed to get it fixed! Unfortunately, I had to pull the tranny and install a new ACT 2100 with the streetdisk and their streetlite flywheel. So far, it works great! Anyways, onto the issue.

The clutch continued to worsen until it finally stopped engaging all together (not too surprising.) So, I decided I would have to pull the tranny to inspect the clutch, since I had already replaced everything hydraulic.

Fortunately, or unfortunately depending on how you look at it, I soon figured out what the problem was. One of the six springs in the stock disk had completely broken free of the disk, as well as a small chunk of the disk itself.

So, the moral of the story is, if anyone is having similar problems as me, once you have finished replacing all of the easy stuff first, do not be afraid to tear into the car and figure out the problem!

- Dsmd1