first log.... would like some advice

[mike96]

finally got my palm to transfer files to my PC. i have palmnstine and obd gauge to data log my 2g. just some quick background, i have been having a problem with a code P0170. i have done a boost leak ck, fixed exhaust leaks, replaced O2 sensors, and checked fuel pressure. and the light just stays on.... so i just did a log at cruse to see if anything looks out of whack. i don't have excel on my PC but i tried to make it as easy to read as possible. the log is from obd gauge and the reading are, in this order.

Time,,,Short term fuel trim,Long term fuel trim,Engine RPM,,Ignition timing advance,,,Throttle position,Oxygen Sensor 1,

4:39:47 PM,,,14, 12, 2736 ,,33 ,,,10 ,60,
4:39:48 PM,,,17, 12, 2736 ,,33 ,,,0 ,20,
4:39:49 PM,,,17, 12, 1996 ,,27 ,,,7 ,40,
4:39:51 PM,,,17, 12, 1976 ,,28 ,,,7 ,40,
4:39:52 PM,,,17, 12, 1972 ,,28 ,,,7 ,40,
4:39:53 PM,,,17, 12, 1964 ,,28 ,,,3 ,40,
4:39:54 PM,,,17, 12, 1932 ,,27 ,,,3 ,40,
4:39:55 PM,,,17, 12, 1908 ,,27 ,,,6 ,40,
4:39:57 PM,,,17, 12, 1884 ,,27 ,,,9 ,40,
4:39:58 PM,,,17, 12, 1904 ,,27 ,,,13 ,60,
4:39:59 PM,,,17, 12, 1944 ,,27 ,,,9 ,440,
4:40:00 PM,,,17, 12, 1964 ,,28 ,,,9 ,60,
4:40:01 PM,,,17, 12, 1988 ,,28 ,,,9 ,60,
4:40:02 PM,,,17, 12, 1992 ,,28 ,,,9 ,60,
4:40:04 PM,,,17, 12, 2008 ,,28 ,,,9 ,40,
4:40:05 PM,,,17, 12, 2008 ,,28 ,,,6 ,40,
4:40:06 PM,,,17, 12, 1984 ,,28 ,,,5 ,40,
4:40:07 PM,,,17, 12, 1964 ,,28 ,,,5 ,40,
4:40:08 PM,,,17, 12, 1940 ,,27 ,,,5 ,40,
4:40:10 PM,,,17, 12, 1908 ,,27 ,,,6 ,40,
4:40:11 PM,,,17, 12, 1896 ,,27 ,,,6 ,40,
4:40:12 PM,,,17, 12, 1876 ,,27 ,,,6 ,40,
4:40:13 PM,,,17, 12, 1872 ,,27 ,,,6 ,40,
4:40:14 PM,,,17, 12, 1864 ,,26 ,,,6 ,40,
4:40:16 PM,,,17, 12, 1860 ,,28 ,,,0 ,20,
4:40:17 PM,,, 0, 12, 1800 ,,15 ,,,2 ,20,
4:40:18 PM,,,17, 12, 1756 ,,25 ,,,6 ,20,
4:40:19 PM,,, -4, 12, 1712 ,,14 ,,,0 ,0,
4:40:20 PM,,, 0, 12, 1576 ,,12 ,,,0 ,0,
4:40:22 PM,,,17, 12, 1512 ,,24 ,,,0 ,20,
4:40:23 PM,,,16, 12, 2076 ,,25 ,,,27 ,760,
4:40:24 PM,,,15, 12, 2292 ,,25 ,,,29 ,520,
4:40:25 PM,,,13, 12, 2516 ,,25 ,,,30 ,820,
4:40:26 PM,,,10, 12, 2748 ,,33 ,,,0 ,840,
4:40:27 PM,,, 9, 12, 2004 ,,27 ,,,12 ,40,
4:40:29 PM,,,11, 12, 2020 ,,28 ,,,9 ,80,
4:40:30 PM,,,16, 12, 2024 ,,29 ,,,7 ,40,
4:40:31 PM,,,17, 12, 2012 ,,28 ,,,7 ,40,
4:40:32 PM,,,17, 12, 1992 ,,28 ,,,5 ,40,
4:40:33 PM,,,17, 12, 1972 ,,28 ,,,5 ,40,
4:40:35 PM,,,17, 12, 1948 ,,17 ,,,0 ,0,
4:40:36 PM,,, 0, 12, 1876 ,,16 ,,,0 ,0,
4:40:37 PM,,, 0, 12, 1272 ,,14 ,,,0 ,20,
4:40:39 PM,,, 0, 12, 2212 ,,20 ,,,0 ,0,
4:40:39 PM,,, 0, 12, 2076 ,,19 ,,,0 ,0,

thanks for any help you can give

 

[spyderturbo007]

Is that the only CEL you have? Typically, that CEL is caused by a dead front O2 sensor, but can also be caused by a shot coolant temp sensor, or dead IAT. Can you pull up coolant temp and IAT on your logger and see what the values are fully warmed up. Keep in mind that the gauge and the ECU run off two different sensors, so just because the guage looks normal, doesn't mean the ECU is getting the correct reading.

I also see that your O2 sensor readings look funny in the log you posted above. It should be cycling between 0.10v - 0.90v, but I'm not familiar with OBD gauge, so it could be something specific to that program. You're doesn't look like it's cycling as quickly as it should assuming those are supposed to be decimal points and not commas.

 

[mike96]

sorry about the delay getting back. obd gauge seems to work pretty good the only thing i have an issue with is yea those comas are the separations in the sensor data so i am guessing most other logging software use periods? with the o2 sensor reading obdgauge reads in millivolts. also with obd gauge you can only set your comport to either 9600 or 19200 baud so the more sensors you log the more time in between scans. thats why you might notice almost a second - second and a half between reads. it is a little slow. i have replaced the o2 sensor before with a new one but i think i am going to do it again just to see. i also replaced my TPS the other day, i noticed on the logger i couldn't get it over 90%. cleared the ecu and the light came right back on. i am also going to hook up my wide band setup and try to get it logging and see what it is telling me.

 

[mike96]

OK now i seem to be having problems. just put in my wide band and have it set up just to keep an eye on things. i can log AFR, and TPS but cant get RPM's working, not sure why yet. trying to pin down this P0170 code. i had a fuel pressure regulator from am 1g gallant on it and it seemed to be working OK AF at cruse was a bit high, ranged around high 14's to high 15's/low 16's. idle AFR ran between mid 18's to mis 19's, i know it sounds high... really high... so i put the stock pressure regulator back on to see if it would make any difference, boy did it. idle AFR is now in the 20's to 21's and cruse was in the 17's and 18's... needless to say the car is parked until i can figure out WTF... i am going to pull the fuel pump and check\replace it, the guy i bought the car from gave me an evo8 fuel pump and injectors. hopefully i can pick up a fuel pressure tester tomarrow...

 

[spyderturbo007]

Are you logging AFR through OBDGauge? If so, how did you wire up the WBO2? Did you tap it into the RearO2 input at the ECU? Does OBDGauge allow you to log AFR, or just Lambda? If it only allows you to log Lambda, what calculation are you using to conver to AFR.

Also, keep in mind that a pre-WB exhaust leak will cause major problems with AFR readings.

 

[mike96]

I have a TechEdge 2J1 WBO2 unit I use for the AFR logging and OBD gauge to log all of the other engine signals, TPS, RPM, IGN, ECT, ECT. I have some of the input signals hooked up but at the moment only the TPS works with my tech edge unit I can’t seem to get RPM working. As far as OBD gauge is concerned with the factory o2 sensor it is flat lined at 0.0v and my WBO2 sensor is in place of the rear o2. When you try driving the car it is pretty obvious that it isn’t running right. It has no power off idle, runs much hotter than usual, and hesitates at idle. Once you get off idle it smoothes out but still runs hot. Best I can tell there are no exhaust leaks but I suppose I can check, won’t hurt right?

 

[spyderturbo007]

I would check for an exhaust leak. I was getting 18+ AFR's at idle and 13's at WOT. I knew it couldn't be right based on my tune and it turned out to be 3 different exhaust leaks. After fixing them, the WB readings returned to normal.

As for the O2 showing 0.0v, is that the front O2 or the rear O2?

 

[mike96]

that o2 reading 0.0v is the front.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Check the wiring and make sure it not damaged. If not, then it looks like you need a new front O2 sensor. That's what is causing your ST and LTFT to max in the positive direction.

Make sure you go with an OEM sensor and not one of the universal ones. Check somewhere like www.sparkplugs.com or www.oxygensensors.com for cheaper than dealer prices on an OEM sensor.

 

[mike96]

Ok so let me get this straight. you are saying that if my oxygen sensor is bad and reading 0.0v that is causing my car to run lean...? i just want to make sure we are on the same page.

 

[spyderturbo007]

No, it will make your car run rich. The oxygen sensor is telling the ECU that the car is running lean, so the ECU injects additional fuel to compensate for the false lean condition. It does this by increasing the ST and LTFT. Once they hit their preprogrammed limit of 12% and 17%, it trips the CEL.

I suspect that the WBO2 is reading lean because you either have an exhaust leak, or the WB isn't calibrated.

 

[mike96]

Sorry about that, I just had to make sure I understood what you were saying. I didn’t know that 12 and 17 were the max on the fuel trims. As for what the WBO2 is saying... it isn't lying the last couple of days it has been running like poop. Coughs, spits, and stutters, and won’t stay idling under 1500rpm. I have done a few things and have been running into walls. i do know one thing for a fact, I thought the FPR was bad from the beginning so I replaced it with one from the JY for $5 it worked good for a bit then it started going lean. I changed it back to the original and it got even worse so the other one went back in and it got a little better. so I am going to pick up a fuel pressure tester today and see what I have going on, after that I think I am going to take a day off and then start over from the beginning.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Ah, I thought you got the FPR problem resolved. Any chance you can pick up a stock 2g regulator and throw that on to test?

 

[mike96]

i need to look around a bit for a 2g with a 4g63 in it. most of the ones in the junkyard are striped. and i only know one person with extra parts but he is more interested in making a buck or two...

 

[mike96]

OK i have another question for you... are you familiar with palm-n-stein and if so how dose it read air flow Hz or grams/min? I am starting to wounder if ma-by the airflow sensor might be bad.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Nope, I don't have any experience with that program. I'm only familiar with the PocketLogger software. The 2g does output airflow to the OBD-II port, so any datalogger software should be able to grab the data. 1g's only output MAS frequency, but the 2g's output airflow.

 

[mike96]

Well I have narrowed it down to a definite fuel issue. I tried a couple of different FPRs. the factory FPR for the 2Gs makes the car run really lean. I grabbed one from a NT car which should be a higher pressure and it helps out a bit, not quite as bad but still lean. I have already changed the fuel pump with my evo8 that I had and that made no change. So this is what I am going to do, look at the fuel lines to make sure nothing is bent or crimped, add in a pressure gauge to keep an eye on pressure. If those are good then i am going to replace the fuel filter (again) because it is only $20, rewire the pump (maybe the wire is corroded or something), and if all else fails change the injectors. Sound logical?