[RESOLVED] Timing Belt Problems

[JStrateger]

Hey guys, I'm new and of course I have a problem. =(

I'm trying to get the crankshaft in the right position for Top Dead Center but I'm not sure where the allignment marks are for it. I was wondering if anyone could help me out? Here are some pics of what everything looks like right now:

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Can you guys help me out?

 

[snowborder714]

Pull out the spark plug from either cylinder 1 or 4 and shove something down in. You'll be able to tell if the piston is going up or down. Once you start getting close to the top of travel, look to line up your cam gear marks as well as your crank and oil pump sprocket marks. Your dowel pins will be at 12 o'clock when the engine's at TDC.

 

[8urv8]

Search "timing marks". You'll find more information than you would ever want to know. The timing mark for the crank pulley is just to the right of the tensioner.

 

[Locke]

Fill out your vehicle profile - years matter here.

Through '92, the crank sprocket marks will line up near 2:00.
Other years will have the crank marks align near 11:00.

Feeling for it, as Brian explained, will also work.

 

[JStrateger]

Pull out the spark plug from either cylinder 1 or 4 and shove something down in. You'll be able to tell if the piston is going up or down. Once you start getting close to the top of travel, look to line up your cam gear marks as well as your crank and oil pump sprocket marks. Your dowel pins will be at 12 o'clock when the engine's at TDC.

Alright, I used your trick and I believe its in correct time now. It was about 4 teeth off. The engine runs better but the throttle still isn't as responsive as it should be.

Here is the whole story though, The car is a 96' GS-T with a 98' JDM 4G63 motor swapped into it. The major differences I've noticed between this motor and the stock one is that it doesn't have emissions, no oil pressure sensor and no spot on the intake for the map sensor. (I think thats what sensor it is?) It also has a difference turbo, i had to get the J-pipe for the 16G so it would fit with the stock IC piping.

The car runs and has a smooth idle but like I said, it just isn't very responsive. Has anyone else done this swap? I'm using the ECU from the stock motor; could that be the cause of my problems? Thanks for any help guys.

 

[snowborder714]

Have you tried adjusting your throttle cable?

 

[JStrateger]

Have you tried adjusting your throttle cable?

The throttle cable does have a little slack in it but when I open the throttle with my hand, it's still very unresponsive. The engine tries to stall and drops in RPM's when I open the throttle when the car first starts. After the engine warms up a bit I'm able to rev it up. I'm not sure whats up, its a dsmystery. =(

 

[PSSSHHH]

If you look at the pictures you have, the little bronze plate behind the crankshaft gear has a little notch in it. That is you crank timing mark, and it will line up with the little timing mark just to the right of the tensioner.

 

[16g-2ndgen]

why dont you try your ignition timing buddy.

 

[banishedmunk]

ground out the timing and setup a timing light and ensure you are at 5 degrees advance

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

ground out the timing and setup a timing light and ensure you are at 5 degrees advance

Advanced? -it SHOULD be retarded... i.e. 5 degrees BTDC (BEFORE Top Dead Center)

 

[Locke]

An advanced spark happens sooner, a retarded spark happens later. ie: 10 degrees BTDC is more advanced than 5 degrees BTDC.

 

[JStrateger]

When I did the timing the last Im pretty sure I set it at TDC, so it should be at 5* BTDC? I think this may be my problem.

If you look at the pictures you have, the little bronze plate behind the crankshaft gear has a little notch in it. That is you crank timing mark, and it will line up with the little timming mark just to the right of the tensioner.

I'll try lining up the blade mark and see where my pistons are at, I think I *may* have put the copper blade on backwards though.

 

[snowborder714]

When I did the timing the last Im pretty sure I set it at TDC, so it should be at 5* BTDC? I think this may be my problem.

When doing your timing belt, you want all the marks to line up. When setting the timing with a timing light, you want the white timing mark between 0 and 10, on the little hash mark. This denotes 5*.

 

[JStrateger]

Isn't the ignition timing controlled completely by the timing belt? How do I change the timing with a timing light?

 

[snowborder714]

Well, if you don't have a 1g CAS sensor, you can't change the timing. You can just check it using a light. If you want to know though, here you go:
Engine Timing
Base Timing Adjustment

 

[JStrateger]

If I check my ignition timing and it is off; That would mean either my Crankshaft or Camshafts are timed incorrectly and I need to re-install the timing belt?

I think I may invest in a 1G CAS, it sounds like it works just like a distributor.

Alright, so I've just finished checking my timing with a timing light and it's too far advanced. It's not off by too much though so I'm close! I hope fourth times a charm.

I'm soo worthy of posting in the newbie section.

 

[banishedmunk]

did you try adjusting by turning your cas?

 

[JStrateger]

I figured out the problem, I put the CPS sensing blade on backwards and it was throwing off my ignition timing. Man, what a headache but at least its fixed! Thanks for all your help guys!

 

[BoostedTalonTS]

An advanced spark happens sooner, a retarded spark happens later. ie: 10 degrees BTDC is more advanced than 5 degrees BTDC.

Hmm... guess I should go sell my Advancing timing light then as I clearly need a retarding timing light then

-if I dial it in +5* on the advancing timing light, my timing tick will register right around 0*, at TDC, not the other way around (this is also with 5* BTDC timing set).

 

[Locke]

Are you kidding me?

I don't think you quite have a complete grasp of ignition timing.

 

[JStrateger]

Who? Me or BoostedTalonTS? I know I don't have a grasp on anything DSM related.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I figured out the problem, I put the CPS sensing blade on backwards and it was throwing off my ignition timing. Man, what a headache but at least its fixed! Thanks for all your help guys!

I was going to say, this looked NOT GOOD. The notch I have the red arrow at should be close to 11 o'clock at TDC :: If everything else was in TDC and it was that far off, I would suspect you have some bent valves. How does the car run now? I would do a compression test ASAP on that engine and see what pops up. Does it sound like a subaru (firing on 3 cylinders)?

-if I dial it in +5* on the advancing timing light, my timing tick will register right around 0*, at TDC, not the other way around (this is also with 5* BTDC timing set).

I don't know if you are using some uber expensive timing light, but my timing light does nothing but goes off of spark on cylinder 1 when grounded. I don't know if any other way to 'dial' my ignition timing except through the use of a 1G CAS.

 

[Locke]

Tom - advancing timing lights are used to determine timing on vehicles that don't have some sort of graduated timing plate. Most cars anymore don't require them.

If you have a TDC mark, or can make one, and wanted 5* of time, you would set the light to 5* and adjust ignition time until the marks lined up.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Tom - advancing timing lights are used to determine timing on vehicles that don't have some sort of graduated timing plate. Most cars anymore don't require them.

If you have a TDC mark, or can make one, and wanted 5* of time, you would set the light to 5* and adjust ignition time until the marks lined up.

This is true. But I use mine a different way for setting base timing. I set the timing light to 5* advance and aim it at the cam gears. When the inner marks line up you are at 5*. I do this for two reasons: 1. I don't have ANY timing covers on my car, so I can't verify base timing with the lower cover. That's how the car was when I bought it and I have not bought covers yet. I highly recommend against running with no covers. 2. This way is always going to be accurate. You don't have to worry about the crank pulley starting to seperate or anything like that.