help please logging results: 1st thru 3rd gear pull

[larrys91talon]

1st gear pull:0rpm to 1342rpm knock 0 o2 .80
1343rpm knock 7 o2 .82
1406rpm knock 10 o2 .82
1625rpm knock 14 o2 .80
1687rpm knock 18 o2 .83
1750rpm knock 22 o2 .83
1875rpm knock 29 o2 .87
2156rpm knock 37 o2 .89
2906rpm knock 36 o2 .91
3437rpm knock 35 o2 .91
3843rpm knock 34 o2 .89
5843rpm knock 33 o2 .76
6468rpm knock 28 o2 .52

2nd gear pull: 4250rpm knock 0 o2 .87
4843rpm knock 1 o2 .85
4937rpm knock 8 o2 .83
4968rpm knock 14 o2 .83
5250rpm knock 28 02 .72
5718rpm knock 27 o2 .70
5781rpm knock 37 o2 .64
5875rpm knock 36 o2 .64
6156rpm knock 43 o2 .03

3rd gear pull: 4500rpm knock 1 o2 .85
4593rpm knock 11 o2 .83
4625rpm knock 22 o2 .83
4656rpm knock 29 o2 .82
4781rpm knock 34 o2 .80
5218rpm knock 41 o2 .78
5250rpm knock 31 o2 .89


im boosting 20psi on these readings with my mods,compression is 160 across my afc high fuel trims on 550ccs are from -8 to +3 i need info on my hesitation issues, if i should add fuel to my afc etc... with these readings. im new to the dsms so if anyone can help its much appreciated. thanks

 

[Gstclipse69]

You need to log one pull in third gear from 2k to redline at wot. Then we'll go from there.

 

[Stainbox12]

Your hesistation, is due to massive knock. You are pulling too much timing with those very high knock readings. I would replace the knock sensor to start with, since it looks like phantom knock to me. Whenever you pull timing, even just a bit, you will feel your car being held back and not being able to go anywhere. Good luck.

 

[asd_gst]

Your hesistation, is due to massive knock. You are pulling too much timing with those very high knock readings. I would replace the knock sensor to start with, since it looks like phantom knock to me. Whenever you pull timing, even just a bit, you will feel your car being held back and not being able to go anywhere. Good luck.

yes very true the bigger the knock the slow the car iwll be, because of the timing change, but yea change your knock sensor, then check your timing

 

[larrys91talon]

unplugged knock sensor and turned boost down to 13psi for a pull to get the -9 degree timing and now its not going anywere just sputtering at wot(well still), im probubly at geo metro status right now that how slow the cars running not smooth eather like i said it sputters and the exhaust sounds deeper.

when i looked at the o2 sensor on the afc it was reading .1x(vfaqs blue wire mod) but the logger was reading in the .8x range, weard. afc only started reading like that after the knock sensor was unplugged.

i've tryed from 20psi to now 12psi of boost and everything in between and the sputting is there at all times. it only throws 0 knock and no sputter if i keep it under vac. while driving but when boost starts its slower than 0 vac. even with the knock sensor yanking timming now to only -9 degrees.

 

[cjridert1]

first - is your base timing right? You are getting LOTS of knock. 20lbs boost, you may want to retard your base timing a bit; also, you are using AFC which lies via reducing airflow seen, so the computer is adding more timing to an already aggressive 1g timing map. What is .8x volts come out to (I dont use narrowbands)? Also, pull your timing belt cover and make sure the belt is in good shape and appropriately taught.

 

[cjridert1]

Also, if you unplug the knock sensor, you need to ground it out to not have timing pulled during a pull. The ECU does this automatically if the knock sensor is throwing an error (i.e. - anyone will get 9 counts if they do a pull with knock sensor throwing an error). This is a bad idea for you though, this is real knock. The 1g timing map spikes like 20+° of advance @ 5k or so (dont forget you are lying with your AFC, so you are asking for more yet I believe).

 

[larrys91talon]

the -9 is what the loggers reading now from the knock sensor being unplugged, my actual timing is right on btdc then i use the timing light and set the cas to +5 degrees.im running 15psi now cause this heat in AZ and my fuel trims should be about right or enough for it not to be sputtering and accelerating like a freaking geo metro after a certain amount of throttle.

im told on the narrowband i want to try to tune for .87 to .91 that all i can say on that never had a wideband.

i tryed to pull the knock sensor to try to rule out phantom knock and now that its not pulling the timing 20 degrees anymore and running worse still i no its real knock. it doesnt feel like just no power it sputters and the exhaust sounds deeper when sputtering even under the -9 timing now.

i got new ngk 6s, oem plug wires. my afc settings with the afc are from -10 to +1 on the high throttle map on 15psi on crap 91 gas and octane booster and lucus fuel injector cleaner in it now. i've tryed from stock boost levels to 20psi and it sputters 1/4 throttle from any of those levels.

 

[Stainbox12]

Where are you getting the readings from? the safc? The blue wire mod doesn´t work in this cars, neither the knock count is real just to let you know. Get a logger if you don´t have one already. If you unplug the knock sensor de ecu will go into limp mode and read 9 counts of knock by default, so that won´t fix your problem either. Small amounts of knock which can happen in certain situations may be caused by lean conditions, high base timing, unproper spark plug gap, and some others. If you are experiencing, this high amounts of knock with the sensor plugged and im talking about 45 counts of knock, then its either rod knock or something wrong with your engine, which is unlikely if you have not found that yet. Or simply a bad knock sensor as i said from the beggining.

 

[larrys91talon]

im reading off the logger.timings right on,plugs are gaped to .28 they are the ngk 6's and i did retard the timing some with no difference in performance.

herd somthing knocking under high boost maybe rod knock was told its detonating and right when i hear it let off the gas or i can kiss the motor goodbye.

just put my boost down to 9psi and hooked the knock sensor back up. the high low throttle settings on the afc are now at -10 across.when i hooked the knock sensor back up i spliced the positive wire from the knock to the ecu but the ground i went from the ecu wire that was already cut when i got the car just to a ground on the t body, is that ok its showing same knock counts now?

dont no if this helps but was free reving the car outside and the TIMA on the logger at idle is reading 10 degrees(thats all it shows,no + or - signs)at 900rpm with no knock.now what is TIMA? cause on the logger at 3218rpm free rev i hit 38 counts of knock(real quick only, higher rev showed 0 knock), TIMA was at 22 degrees and o2s were about right at .87. these are all reading off the logger also one of my top pulleys you can see it shaking back and forth a little bit and is making a little noise.

im getting a new knock sensor tomarrow to try that and see what happens i'll keep you all posted also doing a boost leak test today i'll let you guys no whats up on that to. thanks for the help so far all, cause im stuck.

 

[larrys91talon]

well did a boost leak test and found major leaks all around the throttle body so bad it only held 10psi then the leaks would be screaming.the 10 psi only held for 5 to 10 sec max. i fixed the leaks just now(hopefully) and i'll do another boost leak test today.

when all the gasket sealent dries im gonna reset everything and start from scratch afc,timing,etc...and we'll see how it goes i'll keep you all posted.

by the way one of the top pulleys bolts were loose and you could see it wiggling back and forth slightly so fixed that to.

could these things be a hole part of the knock issue?