16g Supporting Mods

[97GSTee]

I have a 97 gst with a stock motor. I have a megan racing 2.5 inch test pipe with an hks catback....next i want to get a new downpipe and then an evo3 exhaust manifold. After ive been thinking about a big 16g, but im wondering...what supporting mods do i need, or would be recommended? thanks

 

[oldman420]

No supporting mods required, maybe except a big o2 housing and port that 16g to reduce boost creep, boost controller and after market boost guage. After that you looking at fuel upgrades so you can more than just a couple of lbs over stock boost levels, you will notice a way better pull over that t-25. I suggest looking at punishment-racings budget mitsu flaged manifold, with a hahns race craft super16g, you will be happy with that.

 

[rarson]

You don't need an EVO III exhaust manifold. It's the same exact thing as what you have now, except the outlet for the turbine is a little larger. Get a die grinder and some carbide burrs and it'll be just as good.

First you need a boost gauge, a boost controller, a BOV that doesn't leak, some decent IC pipes, and preferably a way to tune fuel. Then you'll need a J-pipe, oil supply line, gaskets, and such (you might as well just get a kit from RRE). This is just the bare minimum. After all that is done, you still have the possibility of hitting fuel cut (unless you have something to tune it with) and you're still not going to have enough injector for anything above 15 psi or so.

Don't bother with changing the O2 housing either. The 2g piece is plenty big enough. You're only going to be running a 2.5" downpipe anyway if you're keeping the test pipe.

A Hahn Racecraft Super16g is one of the worst turbos you could put on the car.

 

[oldman420]

1rst) "A Hahn Racecraft Super16g is one of the worst turbos you could put on the car."
don't just flame, explain?

2nd) Tune stock fuel, if running stock boost? Didn't even mention a re-wire of the fuel pump which then would require tuning.

3d) He mentioned he was getting a manifold, i was just trying to point him in the right direction, i have bought their stuff and it is quality.

 

[Bud92gsx]

No supporting mods on 16G... Bullshit!!! Ever since i put the 16G on my car it takes soo much longer to get boost. Now with more fuel you could get more power while that bigger turbo is spooling. That would be the way i shoullda went. I had a tune on my stock turbo and that rocked. I do have to say thoough. That the 16G really freaking pulls when in boost!!! But now with the bigger turbo i need to find another way to tune for free, since im in college now. So if you have any suggestions for a free tune, or an extra 2G O2 housing you could sell me then maybe do some more research.

 

[97GSTee]

i'm looking into some 650cc injectors with a 190lph fuel pump...i dont have the money for a dsmlink right now so the apexi safcII looked pretty good... Should i upgrade the fuel pump and injectors, and look into a AFC, as well as either some IC pipes or a whole kit before i do the big16g?

 

[Bud92gsx]

I'd say do a 2.5 from turbo to your catback. 650's, and fuel pump sound beutiful. but as for the ic pipes and such. ive seen people go up in size and loose alot. On the other hand it could go great for you. If you did change ic pipes I'd go witha Supra sidemount, cause it hides what you have underneath without using a front mount that screams "I'm boosted". the stocker the look the less Ricey and the more people think your stock...

 

[Icarus]

I now have a big FMIC but before a couple weeks ago I was just running a E3 ex. mani, MHI E316g and E3O2 housing. Intake and exhaust were stock. I was using a MBC I would spike to 14 and hold at 13psi with no problems on my logs. There was maybe 200 rpm difference between that and stock.

 

[97GSTee]

sounds good...what kind of fpr would you guys recommend?

 

[haioku-rocket]

sounds good...what kind of fpr would you guys recommend?

Don't need one for what you want. A walbro 190 is more than enough for a 16g, and they can be ran on stock regulators of course. Only spend money in places that you need. We have a walbro 190 on my wife's To4E 60 trim with no problems.

 

[15 sec gs]

Only spend money in places that you need. We have a walbro 190 on my wife's To4E 60 trim with no problems.

running what kind of boost eventually he is most likely going to want to run higher boost and a 255 will be needed, if you leave the stock fpr on he can use a 255 and be fine

 

[spyderturbo007]

running what kind of boost eventually he is most likely going to want to run higher boost and a 255 will be needed, if you leave the stock fpr on he can use a 255 and be fine

I'm going to disagree with you on this one. Mathematically, the 190lph FP rewired can support 46.58lbs/min of airflow at 25psi, so it can handle the airflow of the EVO III 16g.

Also, with a 255lph FP, you need an AFPR unless you want to jack your fuel trims and run rich until about 8psi of boost.

 

[ApexVIII]

No supporting mods on 16G... Bullshit!!! Ever since i put the 16G on my car it takes soo much longer to get boost. Now with more fuel you could get more power while that bigger turbo is spooling. That would be the way i shoullda went. I had a tune on my stock turbo and that rocked. I do have to say thoough. That the 16G really freaking pulls when in boost!!! But now with the bigger turbo i need to find another way to tune for free, since im in college now. So if you have any suggestions for a free tune, or an extra 2G O2 housing you could sell me then maybe do some more research.

is it ported? i ported mine and it spools really really fast, imean its not T25 fast but for flowing 500CFM, its a fast spool, you should get yours ported it really helps with spool.


but yea, i got TBE SSAC FMIC, greddy bov, runing stock boost control on stock tune

runs great!

 

[15 sec gs]

i agree on that part but i do not agree with the 190 what is he going to do once he reaches his goals of the 16g how he has already boughten a 190 and now he has to buy a 255 its a waist of money that he doesnt need eventually he will need to get a fpr and a 255 so why not just get it now

 

[SiNiST3R]

Pickup a evo fuel pump rewire it for pennies it will flow awesome and plenty for a 16g

 

[97GSTee]

interesting...wouldnt i need to invest in a FPR anyway if i'm going to be allowing more airflow from the fmic

 

[spyderturbo007]

No, why would you think that? FPR is Fuel Pressure Regulator. When you install a higher flowing fuel pump, the stock FPR needs to bypass more fuel past the rail than it would with the stock pump. The problem becomes, that the stock FPR can't handle this additional flow and the pressure increases at the rail over and above the stock FP of 43.5psi. This leads to the vehicle running rich until you hit about 5psi of boost. After that, the motor is using enough fuel that the stock FPR can handle the flow.

So basically, with a pump larger than the 190, the stock FPR can't handle the flow and needs to be upgraded. Otherwise, you're going to have a horrible time setting your FT's. It doesn't have anything to do with a FMIC.

 

[rarson]

1rst) "A Hahn Racecraft Super16g is one of the worst turbos you could put on the car."
don't just flame, explain?

2nd) Tune stock fuel, if running stock boost? Didn't even mention a re-wire of the fuel pump which then would require tuning.

3d) He mentioned he was getting a manifold, i was just trying to point him in the right direction, i have bought their stuff and it is quality.

1. It uses a stock TD05 turbine wheel in a huge 10cm2 Garrett housing... and it's not even a 20g. The 16g compressor doesn't need such a huge turbine housing. They might've been okay in 1998, but a decade later, there's a bajillion better turbos you can throw onto a 4g63.

2. Yes, tune stock fuel running "stock boost." Because first of all, the car runs pretty rich from the factory anyway, and in order to avoid fuel cut, you have to have some kind of tuning method. And secondly, a 16g flows WAY more air than a T-25 at the same boost.

3. Yeah, well the right direction is to not waste money on a manifold he doesn't need.

Sorry, I didn't want to say it before, but you gave a lot of bad advice.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I thought about your dillema today while i was in class, and a tubular manifold would help with turbo lag as well. And APEX8 I'm going to have to try porting it and see if thats helps, but thank you!!!

 

[Sam@RRE]

In all honesty, the 16G doesn't lag at all IMHO. 3200-3400 rpm full 22psi of boost in my personal car. And some decent boost in the late mid to late 2000's. Bud92gsx either whoever installed your turbo did a bad job and you have a ton of pre-turbo exhaust leaks and and boost leaks so your seeing boost at 4.5K, or you love the t-25 too much. HRC "super" 16G is total crap, that stupid large turbine housing for a small TD05 wheel is probably why you lag so much.

Tubular Manifolds are all crap. Though DNP makes some nice pieces, All tubulars are known for cracking. As far is helping lag? maybe by 200rpms if that. Only Tubulars worth buying are $500+ and at this point for a 16G in a street car, not needed.

The OP needs to do some research, the 16G is an old school proven turbo, everything about it has been covered, its flaws, its fixes, its triumph and its failures. Its been done over and over and over again, and by todays standard in turbo 4g63's whether its DSM or EVO, it's considered standard.

 

[TSI95FWD]

Def. would recommend the fuel pump and injectors

 

[rarson]

No supporting mods on 16G... Bullshit!!! Ever since i put the 16G on my car it takes soo much longer to get boost.

You're running a 1g. The small 16g is almost exactly the same as the 14b. It should spool almost exactly the same.

Now with more fuel you could get more power while that bigger turbo is spooling.

That's not how it works. A given compressor wheel flows a certain amount of air at a certain pressure ratio and speed. Your engine's breathing ability is going to affect that pressure ratio. But regardless, at a given airflow, you can only make a certain amount of power. Adding fuel will just make the car richer. Unless your MAF is seriously screwed up and isn't metering air, the ECU is going to deliver exactly the same amount of fuel at exactly the same airflow as it did with any other turbo.

In all honesty, the 16G doesn't lag at all IMHO. 3200-3400 rpm full 22psi of boost in my personal car. And some decent boost in the late mid to late 2000's. Bud92gsx either whoever installed your turbo did a bad job and you have a ton of pre-turbo exhaust leaks and and boost leaks so your seeing boost at 4.5K, or you love the t-25 too much.

I agree, it sounds like that turbo isn't setup right. The 16g is a SMALL turbo. It spools fast and hard. Boost threshold always feels about instantaneous for me. Where some turbos feel like they take some time before they start spooling, the 16g seems to start spooling as soon as you push the pedal.

In fact, the thing spools so well that it makes me (and a lot of other people, I think) hesitate when thinking about going bigger on a street setup. Sure, even a 20g would be great, but the 16g is just REALLY FUN. Well that, and I don't feel like I need much more power in a street car.

The OP needs to do some research, the 16G is an old school proven turbo, everything about it has been covered, its flaws, its fixes, its triumph and its failures. Its been done over and over and over again, and by todays standard in turbo 4g63's whether its DSM or EVO, it's considered standard.

Yup. Once again, I'll recommend perusing the RRE website. It's a big help.

 

[97GSTee]

maybe the big16g isnt the best way to spend my money...what other turbos would you recommend...i ont want to have to change all the internals...maybe one day down the road

 

[rarson]

Honestly, I would get an EVO III 16g, since they're about the same price as the big 16g anyway. But since you're FWD, you might want something a bit larger. More lag might make the car easier to drive. I can't really say for sure, I love my AWD.

Most of the supporting mods for the 16g, you're going to need with any other turbo. The one exception might be the intercooler piping, as a lot of turbos you can get with a T-25-style outlet, pointing towards the passenger side. You can't get around these mods. I know, it sucks when you have to buy all this other crap before you can put the turbo on, but that's just how it is.

 

[Bud92gsx]

All I'm saying Is 3200 is not great by any means. That what I'm calling lag. I need more fuel to put more down until boost hits. 440's suck.