Fuel system set-up

[BOC Jason]

Ok first, my goals are to just have a strong engine that is dependable but will get up and go when my right foot feels the urge to.

I plan to install a Dual Stage MBC with my low setting at 12 p.s.i. and my high at 18 p.s.i. (maybe 20 or 22 down the road... nothing higher though).

Right now i'm running a 16g turbo with a 1st gen BOV. I have a SAFC installed as well.

I'm wondering though on what route to go when it comes to injectors, fuel pump and FPR.
I did some thread searching and came across this link as a combo for a Wal 255 fuel pump and a FPR..
ImportEvolution.com - Import Performance Parts, DSM, WRX, Supra, Honda
I'm not sure though if i need a 255 or if a 190 would suit me just fine.

Also i've read about people putting 1000cc injectors on just so they didn't have to upgrade later but i don't plan on shooting for 600HP ever so would 650cc be all that i'm looking for?
I don't know how injectors are rated with cc's and i've read charts about p.s.i. ratings but that like reading another language to me.

Basically i'm just looking to see what i need to look into getting to support 18 p.s.i. of boost on a 16G turbo and possibly 22 p.s.i. of boost down the road ( a year or more)

I also needs opinions on getting a Eprom and DSMLink as well because i don't want to spend money on unneeded tuning accessories if my SAFC will have it covered for me.

LASTLY, how does a logger play into all of this? And what kind of money is expected to spend on one?


I really appreciate this guys. This is exactly why the DSM community rocks

 

[outkastracing]

first of all heres the thing if you buy 650s you could run the risk of maxing them out! if you pay the extra now with say a dsm link which everyone recommends, and say 1000cc injectors whats wrong with a running a injector at 60% nothing thats better than 100% say theres a day that you just need more at the track on the street youll have the potential to do it!! do it right and do it once! it just may take longer thats what ive learned

 

[BOC Jason]

first of all heres the thing if you buy 650s you could run the risk of maxing them out! if you pay the extra now with say a dsm link which everyone recommends, and say 1000cc injectors whats wrong with a running a injector at 60% nothing thats better than 100% say theres a day that you just need more at the track on the street youll have the potential to do it!! do it right and do it once! it just may take longer thats what ive learned

True i've been looking at some 1000cc injectors on some different websites. Anyone have any expierence with a good brand?

 

[bastarddsm]

1000cc injectors will kill drivablilty. they are soo big that the pulsewidth at low rpm/load, will be to small for the injectors to control

 

[BOC Jason]

1000cc injectors will kill drivablilty. they are soo big that the pulsewidth at low rpm/load, will be to small for the injectors to control

What do you mean?
Im looking into upgrading to a DSMLink set-up as well so that should be able to compensate for the larger injectors correct?

 

[absolute_DSM]

1000cc injectors will kill drivablilty. they are soo big that the pulsewidth at low rpm/load, will be to small for the injectors to control

Ever hear of DSMlink?... they idle like stock 450s.

 

[DGajre777]

If the 16G will be your last turbo:
- Get a 190 pump and 650ccs for the SAFC.

If the 16G will not be your last turbo:
- Get a 255HP, AFPR, 1000cc injectors, E-Prom ECU, DSMLink, etc.

As for injector brand - FIC.

1000cc injectors will kill drivablilty. they are soo big that the pulsewidth at low rpm/load, will be to small for the injectors to control

Not really. DSMlink or a Keydiver chip can control it.

 

[BOC Jason]

If the 16G will be your last turbo:
- Get a 190 pump and 650ccs for the SAFC.

If the 16G will not be your last turbo:
- Get a 255HP, AFPR, 1000cc injectors, E-Prom ECU, DSMLink, etc.

As for injector brand - FIC.



Not really. DSMlink or a Keydiver chip can control it.

Well i showed in a different thread this picture of my turbo the other day..

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and someone suggested that my turbo was probably going to poop on me soon here. But couldn't that just be a boost leak that i could fix?

and if not i have another turbo in my shed but i'm not sure what turbo it is...

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regular stock t25? ( i think t25 is what stock is correct? or is it t-28? )

If my turbo's going to go out then i'd consider putting that one on..as long as i can still safely run 18 to 22 p.s.i.

 

[Splitpi]

and someone suggested that my turbo was probably going to poop on me soon here. But couldn't that just be a boost leak that i could fix?

and if not i have another turbo in my shed but i'm not sure what turbo it is...
regular stock t25? ( i think t25 is what stock is correct? or is it t-28? )

No, its internal turbo failure. Could be rebuilt though.

Yes its a T25

 

[BOC Jason]

No, its internal turbo failure. Could be rebuilt though.

Yes its a T25

what goes into it being rebuilt?

and could that lead to blue smoke out of my pipe sometimes when i'm shifting at high rpms?

 

[Xit40]

Yeah that turbo looks pretty shot. If it's not smoking now it probably will be soon. Don't bother rebuilding it if you plan on buying a 16g since you have another one sitting in your garage. Just put the other T-25 on and call it a day. Until you get the other turbo.

I would also recommend go big with the injectors (read at least 750's) with either DSMLink or a Keydriver (dsmchips.com) to control them. For both you will need an Eprom ECU out of a 95. DSMLink will also require that you have a laptop to program everything. DSMLink will run you about $600 including the socketed Eprom plus the cost of a laptop if you don't have one. A Keydriver will cost about $425 with the socketed ECU. Your choice.

A logger is absolutely necessary. If you get DSMLink that's your logger as well. Otherwise pick up something like a pocketlogger. In the end I guess it all ends up costing the same so I would recommend DSMLink since you haven't bought any logging equipment or injectors yet.

 

[BOC Jason]

Yeah that turbo looks pretty shot. If it's not smoking now it probably will be soon. Don't bother rebuilding it if you plan on buying a 16g since you have another one sitting in your garage. Just put the other T-25 on and call it a day. Until you get the other turbo.

I would also recommend go big with the injectors (read at least 750's) with either DSMLink or a Keydriver (dsmchips.com) to control them. For both you will need an Eprom ECU out of a 95. DSMLink will also require that you have a laptop to program everything. DSMLink will run you about $600 including the socketed Eprom plus the cost of a laptop if you don't have one. A Keydriver will cost about $425 with the socketed ECU. Your choice.

Does anyone know how much p.s.i. a t-25 can hold? because i'll just keep that on there if it will still hold 18 - 22 p.s.i. for my high setting of my dual stage mbc (when i get it) but if not then i need to get another 16g i suppose.

and i do have a laptop...but it's a Macbook and idk if DSMLink software supports Macs

 

[snowborder714]

and i do have a laptop...but it's a Macbook and idk if DSMLink software supports Macs

DSMlink does work on Mac's.

 

[BOC Jason]

DSMlink does work on Mac's.

hmm.. really now?

that saves me a lot of stress.
but would the laptop have to be in my car at all times? =/
or is it just used for tuning and then after you tune it how you want you can just un plug it and go on about your day?

 

[Xit40]

Your T-25 will be way out of it's efficiency range at 22psi. 15-16psi is about the max you're gonna get outta your T-25. It'll be throwing out a lot of hot air at that point (15psi +) and won't give you any more power, and actually you might have less.

You use the laptop to program and log. Otherwise once it's set up you're good to go as long as you don't want to fart around with anything, put new parts on, etc.

 

[bastarddsm]

dsmlink will help with global compensation, but it takes a finite amount of time for an injector to open and close. with this big of injector the pluse width at low rpm/low load will be in that area. meaning the injector really isn't controling the fuel flow correctly, similar to a 100% idc condition. also the car will not atomize fuel as well in these situations, making it not run as good as it could.

an example are most modern sportbikes. they have two fuel injectors per cyl. not becuase big enough injectors are not availible, but becuase they require such large injectors for the power they make that they would never idle for shit with one injector that big.

 

[BOC Jason]

Your T-25 will be way out of it's efficiency range at 22psi. 15-16psi is about the max you're gonna get outta your T-25. It'll be throwing out a lot of hot air at that point (15psi +) and won't give you any more power, and actually you might have less.

How much would rebuilding my 16g cost then?

because i could bolt on my t25 and run that on 12 p.s.i (which is what it's at right now) and then after i rebuild the 16g (or buy a new one) then i can put that back on with some new injectors and fuel pump and frp and then install the dual stage mbc and call it a day.

 

[BOC Jason]

dsmlink will help with global compensation, but it takes a finite amount of time for an injector to open and close. with this big of injector the pluse width at low rpm/low load will be in that area. meaning the injector really isn't controling the fuel flow correctly, similar to a 100% idc condition. also the car will not atomize fuel as well in these situations, making it not run as good as it could.

an example are most modern sportbikes. they have two fuel injectors per cyl. not becuase big enough injectors are not availible, but becuase they require such large injectors for the power they make that they would never idle for shit with one injector that big.

so moral of the story is DSMLink is crucial with large injectors? (ex. 650cc, 780cc, 1000cc, etc..)

 

[Xit40]

You should be able to find a good turbo shop that will be able to fully rebuild your 16g for around $300. Check out some of the vendor sites on here that offer rebuilds to get a more definite number.

Yes, if your going over 650's you're going to need something other than the AFC to control them, and 650's might even be pushing it, but it will work. If I had it to do all over again I would have just bought DSMLink.

 

[BOC Jason]

You should be able to find a good turbo shop that will be able to fully rebuild your 16g for around $300. Check out some of the vendor sites on here that offer rebuilds to get a more definite number.

Yeah i'l defiantly have to search into that. I only have about $2000 to $3000 here to work with so after injectors, fuel pump ,dsmlink, eprom, frp or (afrp??) and this turbo. i'm probably done for a while... (oh yeah a FMIC )

 

[bastarddsm]

well theres two morals

1 yes dsm link, or an eprom with "GLOBAL INJECTOR COMPENSATION" is crucial for anything over 550's
2. don't get retaredly huge injectors if you don't need them. ie you dont need 1000's for a 16g.

seeing you have a fwd i would reccomend, fix your 16'g get a set of 650's a fmic, a 190, and have a fun street car. probably a 14b and

 

[BOC Jason]

well theres two morals

1 yes dsm link, or an eprom with "GLOBAL INJECTOR COMPENSATION" is crucial for anything over 550's
2. don't get retaredly huge injectors if you don't need them. ie you dont need 1000's for a 16g.

seeing you have a fwd i would reccomend, fix your 16'g get a set of 650's a fmic, a 190, and have a fun street car. probably a 14b and

14b?

 

[Xit40]

A stock turbo off a 1st generation manual. It's bigger than the T-25 but not as big as the 16g.

 

[BOC Jason]

A stock turbo off a 1st generation manual. It's bigger than the T-25 but not as big as the 16g.

oh i see.

I'm going to search for threads on the different amounts of p.s.i.'s the various turbo's can with hold

 

[bastarddsm]

haha i got distracted and fogot to finish my post..

but a 14b of a 1g and a set of 550's....that will net you a car that will blow the tires off at will in first and second gear, and break em loose in third.