Running Pig Rich/Stuttering/Not Driveable

[pcase]

Over the weekend I installed the Forced Performance 4" intake pipe. Install went clean and all couplers are secure. I used a vacuum tee to connect the charcoal canister and VC breather lines and routed them back into the intake. However, the car will barely drive now it's running insanely rich so much so that putting hand about several inches from the exhaust will net you drops of what appears to be unburnt gas at idle. The car is idling fine however it stutters when driving and jerks violently so much so that you can't even get to 20mph. Also when I slap it back in neutral it will nearly stall out. I checked the IAC motor and TPS with a multimeter got all the proper readings according to the Haynes manual. I also checked near the TB for any boost leaks found none. It sounds like I have a monstrous boost leak though. The car was started once during the install when evidently the MAF was not connected. Is it possible timing was thrown? And would a small hole hole in the BOV return tubing cause all these problems? I need help ASAP as I use this car to drive to school and work. I'm in high school btw.

 

[klipschaudio]

I am having a similiar problem as you, you can check out my closed thread for a video of how my car sounds now, it sounds even worse now though, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dea...ine-runs-like-poo-poo-help.html#post151417148.
Sounded like my IC pipe blew off, the turbo would spin and whistle almost into thin air, but the car would start studdering, checked for leaks, and it was tight.
If you find a solution, post it up!

 

[kenamond]

Did you plug the MAS back in?

 

[pcase]

yes I did.

 

[viperlp01]

check spark. Im suprised your car is running if its that rich.

 

[kenamond]

Is your BOV recirculated into that new intake pipe?

 

[pcase]

Yes it is and all hoses are good and clamped properly. I read through quite possibly every thread on this issue. Hell I checked every sensor related to vacuum and the intake system with a multimeter only to have realized the most obvious of all problems. I believe a shitty coupler going from the intake pipe to the MAS that is not fitting properly with a gaping hole between the MAS and the coupler would cause the car to run very rich and like shit in general, am I right?

 

[kenamond]

Yes it is and all hoses are good and clamped properly. I read through quite possibly every thread on this issue. Hell I checked every sensor related to vacuum and the intake system with a multimeter only to have realized the most obvious of all problems. I believe a shitty coupler going from the intake pipe to the MAS that is not fitting properly with a gaping hole between the MAS and the coupler would cause the car to run very rich and like shit in general, am I right?

It might, but usually, leaking air before the turbo but after the MAS will make you run rich, because more air is entering the engine than is metered by the MAS...too much air, not enough fuel, lean.

But if it's huge, the ECU might do something weird at really low airflow measurements. Like if you left the intake pipe off of the compressor inlet. But I'm not sure what the ECU might do in that situation.

So did you fix the problem?

 

[crimsondragon]

Triple check all hoses. Run along them and feel for any splits.
1. Is your BOV recirculated?
2. How about your line to the charcoal canister?
3. Don't forget the tiny line coming from the BCS.
4. Are the clamps tight?
5. Did you make sure the lines running from the intake is running to the places that they are suppose to go to?
6. Check the clamp at the turbo, can you wiggle the intake or is it solid to the turbo?
7. If all else fails, do a boost leak test.

 

[mach4g63t]

I am having a similiar problem as you, you can check out my closed thread for a video of how my car sounds now, it sounds even worse now though, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dea...ine-runs-like-poo-poo-help.html#post151417148.
Sounded like my IC pipe blew off, the turbo would spin and whistle almost into thin air, but the car would start studdering, checked for leaks, and it was tight.
If you find a solution, post it up!

Bye Bye Turbo. It's done for. Had the same problem with my 14b about a week ago. It's dead. Time for a turbo swap.

 

[pcase]

Problem will be fixed, explained why the car was running the same with the intake pipe off as it was when the pipe was on. I'm awaiting UPS Next Day Air to bring me the coupler since no damn store has them around here.

 

[kenamond]

Problem will be fixed, explained why the car was running the same with the intake pipe off as it was when the pipe was on. I'm awaiting UPS Next Day Air to bring me the coupler since no damn store has them around here.

Hope that does the trick! If it does, explain the fix and put "[RESOLVED]" at the head of the title. That helps others find threads with solutions to similar problems.

 

[klipschaudio]

Bye Bye Turbo. It's done for. Had the same problem with my 14b about a week ago. It's dead. Time for a turbo swap.

It's not the turbo, I swapped my working t25 back in and same problem is present. The 14b is good also, spins freely, no oil leaks and tight shaft.

 

[Bluesideup]

I have the exact same problem on my '95 TSi. It runs so rich that the fuel stains the ground behind the tail pipe. The car idles rough and will not accelerate, it will eventually load up the plugs and die.

So far I have gone through this troubleshooting process....

1. Boost Leak Test. One small leak at the BISS but no change if I cover the BISS hole with my finger. The BOV was also leaking so I temporarily flipped it around backwards.

2. Checked Cam Timing. Both cam marks line up when the crank is TDC.

3. Replaced Coolant Temp Sensor with new

4. Checked wiring.

5. Pulled ECU. I pulled the ECU and took the cover off. The computer looks fine except for what I think is a small capacitor leak.

ECU Picture

<a href="http://s223.photobucket.com/albums/dd23/jhh1441/?action=view&current=ECUBoard.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd23/jhh1441/ECUBoard.jpg" border="0" alt="ECU Board"></a>

<a href="http://s223.photobucket.com/albums/dd23/jhh1441/?action=view&current=ZoomedIn.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd23/jhh1441/ZoomedIn.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

I think the ECU may be bad. The radiator fan turns on after about 10 seconds of idling. This is why I replaced the coolant sensor first. Obviously the ECU "thinks" the car is overheating, well really I think the ECU is having a lot of problems and the radiator fan is just an indicator of the problem.

 

[evileclipse909]

Check your o2 sensor. We are having the same problem with my friends car and his seems to be due to a bad o2 reading.

 

[Bluesideup]

I wonder if the ECU even reads the o2 when it's operating in warm up or open loop mode.

Well I know on some Bosch Motronic systems a shorting o2 sensor can cause all kinds of weird problems. I will try unplugging the o2 sensor and see if that makes a difference.

 

[Bluesideup]

Replaced the bad cap with a new one and I still have the same problem.

I checked the wiring for the coolant sensor back to the ECU and it is ok, about .1 or .2 ohms resistance from the plug to the ECU for both wires.

I checked the ignition wires to make sure they were fully connected.

I did see that the battery is not secured at all. It looks like the positive terminal has contacted the hood. Do you think a short like that could fry the ECU?

Next I'll check the ignition coils but I think I'll try to get my hands on another ECU. The fact that the radiator fan is always running is a tip off to an ECU problem. Maybe my soldering skills aren't what I thought.

 

[Bluesideup]

During my attempts to test the car I noticed the idle would hunt quite a bit. Obviously this points to an idle switch or TPS problem as well as the possibility of the ISC going bad. On 2Gs the idle switch is integrated into the TPS. The TPS didn't seem to be testing correctly so I tried testing the TPS on my 1.8L Mirage since I know that works perfectly.

I noticed a subtle difference in the TPS sensors. The codes were different on the sensor body.

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The Mirage Sensor is on the throttle body in the pic and the sensor that was on my Talon is on the left.

The wiring on a Talon and apparently a 1.8L Mirage is supposed to be from top to bottom

Ground (-)
Idle Sensor (S)
TPS Output (O)
ECU Input 5v (+)

So obviously whatever TPS was in the car was incorrect and causing all kinds of havoc. The only thing that came out of the tailpipe after installing and adjusting the Mirage TPS was water.

The car starts and seems to run fine but I can't drive it quite yet. There seems to be some noise from the timing belt area. It sort of sounds like a buzz saw! I think either the belt is not correctly tensioned or the automatic tensioner is on it's way out. I obviously won't be running it until I figure out that problem.

UPDATE:

I redid the tension on the timing belt and it fixed the noise. I'm sure whoever did the timing belt before didn't pay attention when they torqued down the tensioner pulley. The tensioner pulley and idler pulley are going to be replaced when I pull the engine. The idler pulley spins ok but the tensioner pulley only does 3/4 of a turn when you give it a good spin with the belt not on.

The car seems to run great now although I haven't actually driven it.

 

[Anger890]

I had a similar problem, I found it was a MAF issue with the 4" intake pipe I was using. A quick test will show if this is it, remove your air filter from the MAF and start the car, take a piece of yarn and slowly move accross the face of the MAF from left to right. Watch the yarn, it should be being pulled in at all times.

What I found with mine was that the air was traveling into the intake pipe and somehow traveling back up the pipe and out the sides of the MAF. The air got counted twice, the ECU supplied way more fuel than actually needed and my car ran like crap at idle, trims would never come off -12.5%. I installed a divider plate into the intake pipe and life was immeaditely OK, fuel trims started changing within minutes and the car ran spot on from there.

The theory/explanation I got from an engineer friend was that the high speed of the compressor wheel at idle caused the air to create a tornado in the intake pipe due to the low speed of the air being drawn in at idle because of the much larger than stock intake pipe