Which path should I take?

[crimsondragon]

Alright I'm still aiming for the 400fwhp mark on my car. I'm steadily and slowly getting there but I'm reaching to the point where I have to decide how to get there. My trouble is the perfect FMIC. I want one that will let me keep stock fogs and can get me to my goal. That basically knocks out the SS Autochromes, Greddy and Apexi FMIC's and basically majority of them from Dejon Tool to SBR. I narrowed it down to either Hahn Racecraft or ETS. Here are the pros and cons:

Hahn Racecraft: top to bottom intercooler meaning the air makes a giant U-turn back out. It's also long route piping. I have heard good things about it but the core and piping makes me bleh. With this setup I'll get the Dejon Tool blow thru setup. There are no financing options available and I hate to shell out $950 at once.

ETS: side to side intercooler. short route piping all the way up to the TB. Options available such as different turbo outlet fittings and MAFT option. If I ever want to change my setup, I can ship the old piping back for credit towards the new one. There's also financing available. I can deposit as much as I want whenever I want till I reach the full price of it and then they'll ship it out. However, ETS requires modification which I'm not prepared to do such as relocating the oil cooler and charcoal canister and moving the trans dipstick.

So yeah which one would benefit me most?

 

[95GSXBLUR]

Fabricating, moving, and making new parts is all part of the game we play. It's what makes each car different and separates Tuners from Hacks. Anyone can bolt up some crap kit - do a little work and use something quality.

Get the most EFFICIENT design you can - if it requires more work, so be it. It'll be more beneficial in the long run to reach a 400whp mark.

Building your car is how you learn how to do this stuff on future projects or helps you have more confidence in the next step of reaching 400 wheel.

 

[Stainbox12]

Personally i would get the Hahn racecraft. There's a lot of topics related to people with long route piping and their experiences, and honestly, the difference in performance compared to short route is minimal if any.

You can also get a custom intercooler of your choice and fabricate the piping with your own route, which will be a lot cheaper.

 

[95GSXBLUR]

well considering that the fact the turbo will have to work harder to fill the longer length of piping, there is a difference.

it's simple fluid dynamics - the more direct route of piping the more efficient the system will be - all other aspects equal.

not to mention - aren't you saving money with the ETS kit?

 

[crimsondragon]

I do save more money with the ETS. Dejon upper intercooler piping with the MAFT option cost $200. Hahn is having a holiday sale with their setups going for $600. If I were to buy it now I pretty much break even. IF. And you do make a good point about the whole fabrication deal. That is the thrill of it. I'm leaning towards ETS now. I'm going to have to move the ATF cooler to the driver side bumper hole. I'll use a guide on here for oil cooler but it'll be for the AT instead. I don't know what to do with the power steering cooler though.

 

[kenamond]

I do save more money with the ETS. Dejon upper intercooler piping with the MAFT option cost $200. Hahn is having a holiday sale with their setups going for $600. If I were to buy it now I pretty much break even. IF. And you do make a good point about the whole fabrication deal. That is the thrill of it. I'm leaning towards ETS now. I'm going to have to move the ATF cooler to the driver side bumper hole. I'll use a guide on here for oil cooler but it'll be for the AT instead. I don't know what to do with the power steering cooler though.

Or water/meth injection.

 

[crimsondragon]

Or water/meth injection.

I hate stuff like that. It feels like cheating. Same goes for nitrous. I rather make 400whp without it and if possible on pump gas.

 

[sd_ff22]

I vote hahn.
not only is it good sized, but it will let you keep your fogs like want.
I was just looking around their site and they sell just the eclipse fmic with no piping if you wanted to try to fab up something shorter.

-Dan

 

[kenamond]

I hate stuff like that. It feels like cheating. Same goes for nitrous. I rather make 400whp without it and if possible on pump gas.

I don't think that it's at all like nitrous. It's just a different way of intercooling. You can cool the charge temps down a helluva lot with pure water (no meth) injection. The whole "wind chill" effect. Not cheating, and it steam cleans your motor. If you use the stock windshield washer fluid reservoir, you even have an idiot light that tells you when to fill up the tank again. And you can boost a lot higher with it on pump gas than you can without.

 

[crimsondragon]

Doesn't nitrous do the same thing except it's injected into the combustion chamber? Same thing with propane. The gas is pressurized and when released drops the temperature at least 40 degrees. They even have nitrous systems that inject into the intercooler as well.

 

[CROWN007]

I vote the 7' ETS street kit. but thats just because i run it on my 1g. Shouldn't be hard to relocate the oil cooler. and no one needs a charcoal canister

 

[coryd]

Full Function Technology :: DSM :: Intercoolers & Intakes :: Intercooler Kits & Piping :: FFTec :: Full Function DSM Intercooler Kit

Call them up and talk to andrew. Im sure they can fab one up for you.

 

[kenamond]

Doesn't nitrous do the same thing except it's injected into the combustion chamber? Same thing with propane. The gas is pressurized and when released drops the temperature at least 40 degrees. They even have nitrous systems that inject into the intercooler as well.

Nitrous is just compact oxygen. So you spray extra oxygen molecules. Water/meth injection is more about cooling the hot air just as an intercooler does. To evaporate water, it takes heat. To evaporate meth, it takes even more heat. That means it cools the air off which increases its density (more air goes into the cylinders) and reduces likelihood of knock. But meth is also a fuel with higher octane. You could do straight water injection and still get a very profound cooling effect, but most use various ratios of meth.

 

[crimsondragon]

Nitrous is just compact oxygen. So you spray extra oxygen molecules. Water/meth injection is more about cooling the hot air just as an intercooler does. To evaporate water, it takes heat. To evaporate meth, it takes even more heat. That means it cools the air off which increases its density (more air goes into the cylinders) and reduces likelihood of knock. But meth is also a fuel with higher octane. You could do straight water injection and still get a very profound cooling effect, but most use various ratios of meth.

Ah I see. I'm still reluctant to run such systems just to get to 400whp. My philosophy is if I run 400whp without injection, then the results if I do run them will be phenomenal.

 

[pboglio]

400 whp on pump gas? Gonna be tough on a 2.0 Liter. I don't see it happening reliably.
Most guys at this point switch over to E85 ethanol to achieve it or run high octane unleaded.