Help with my upgrade path please... I need good quick decisions

[lukes1g]

-I will start with the fact that I am brand new to DSM...and I love it. Even though I have already spent more time working on then enjoying it.
-I just bought a 90 TSi AWD 5spd. 150K...3k on a rebuilt head
-The only A/M upgrade (done before I bought it) is a Greddy Type-S BOV
- I had better start off with my goals. I would like this to be a fast daily driver. Maybe somewhere between 200 and 300 h/p. Closer to 250, 300 would be nice perhaps. Probably not any drag racing. I will autocross next spring for fun.
- I really want to do things right... So I don't want to do something like a bigger turbo and be way over my head (and budget) to get the correct supporting mods.
-To start, I have taken the steps and done all the maint. work (all the fluid changes, Full Brakes, Belts, plugs, etc.) so no need to worry about that.
-I need a new boost guage and a-f guage first. Are those the only ones I need? And a Manual Boost controller?
-My 14b needs a serious rebuild so should I go with a new 14b, rebuild mine or upgrade to a 16g (Looking for the most bang for my buck with the least necessary supporting mods to run b/w 16-20 Psi at probably the most)
-Either way my fuel pump is junk (serious cranking before it will fire) Should I go with a 190 or 255lph... and can I get away with it without new injectors, a better fpr or a safc or other self tuning device? How well would each one work with each turbo application? I want to know whats safe for my motor...and of course cost effective.
-Would I need a FMIC?
-Is it better to buy a gm maf or a 2g maf?
-I was thinking 2.5" bent exhaust with a test pipe to replace the cat (no emissions in Madison, WI i dont think) Would that be ok into the stock muffler or would it choke going back to the small ID.
-Suspension-wise I like the ride of my stock springs so probably just some strut tower bars and maybe a new rear swaybar.

Anything else anyone suggests?

-I know this is long and sounds like a stupid newbie thread but I have been researching this for quite sometime and I have just been getting confused and frustrated trying to weed through opinions. So I figured it would be best to just hammer out what I needed and hope someone who knows these cars takes the time to help me with an effective plan.


Thanks alot for the time and I am proud to be a new DSM'er. Hopefully I can get this slab rolling and meet some local clubs next spring!

 

[1gDSM4g63]

A fmic won't be necessary if you stay with the 14b. I wouldn't worry about fuel systems just yet, you need to take care exhaust/downpipe, ported 2g manifold, etc... Just check this out; http://www.dsmtuners.com/tech.php. It'll tell you what comes first.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

easy there killer.. let me help you out one thing @ a time...

1st... get an aftermarket boost gauge (I use stewart warner 2 5/8" gauges) but any aftermarket gauge will work well. Just stay with a good one (stewart warner, autometer, greddy, etc.)


2nd.. DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT buy one of those blinking POS narrow band o2 guage's like they sell at Pepboys. Buy a wideband. (www.extremepsi.com) check with them

3rd.. if your really after 300whp look into a GENUINE mitsu evo 3 16g or the new FP 18g, both spool fast and will put you were you are looking to get.

4th.. 190lph walbro pump is good for 300whp and you don't NEED an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator (often refered to on here as an AFPR)

I'd say also to rewire the fuel pump as well.

I have to get to bed, hope this helped with some of what your looking for

~ Ciao

 

[2gGSX]

If he's staying on stock fuel he doesn't need a wideband.

As stated above, the tuning guide will tell you everything you need to know. In response to your specific questions however:

-I need a new boost guage and a-f guage first. Are those the only ones I need? And a Manual Boost controller?

As stated by the previous poster, all you need is a mechanical boost gauge. A boost controller is something you will inevitably get, so add that to the list.

-My 14b needs a serious rebuild so should I go with a new 14b, rebuild mine or upgrade to a 16g (Looking for the most bang for my buck with the least necessary supporting mods to run b/w 16-20 Psi at probably the most)

If you're honestly looking for ~250 whp, the cheapest option is to buy another 14b that's in good condition. Look on local boards or the classifieds here. Things to watch out for are shaftplay (side to side and in and out) and cracks in the exhaust housing, especially at the wastegate and entrance.

-Either way my fuel pump is junk (serious cranking before it will fire) Should I go with a 190 or 255lph... and can I get away with it without new injectors, a better fpr or a safc or other self tuning device? How well would each one work with each turbo application? I want to know whats safe for my motor...and of course cost effective.

For a 14b car, a Walbro 190 will be fine. Most people don't seem to have significant problems with it overrunning the stock FPR. The stock injectors will be fine for your goals as well. Something you definitely want to add to your list is a datalogger (a palm pilot connected to your OBD port which allows you to look at knock, injector duty cycle, and a slew of other variables). There are programs available online for free.

-Would I need a FMIC?

No, but check your SMIC for any damage or leaks, and ideally, clean it out.

-Is it better to buy a gm maf or a 2g maf?

Unnecessary.

-I was thinking 2.5" bent exhaust with a test pipe to replace the cat (no emissions in Madison, WI i dont think) Would that be ok into the stock muffler or would it choke going back to the small ID.

Your exhaust will flow as well as the narrowest part, so I wouldn't recommend doing all that then sticking the stock muffler back on.

-Suspension-wise I like the ride of my stock springs so probably just some strut tower bars and maybe a new rear swaybar.

Someone else should chime in on this.

To set up your car, set your boost a few pounds below what you actually want to run. Make a log containing RPM, knock, IDC, Front O2 voltage, airflow, and timing at the minimum. Try getting someone else to come with you to watch the logger (optional). Tell them to let you know if they see knock rise above about 8 counts. Get the car warmed up and start collecting data and make a pull in third gear from 2000 until 7000 or just over.

If everything looks good (little or no knock, IDC is below 85%, timing steadily rises) then slowly increase boost until you get to your desired level.

Hope that helps.

 

[Eclipse98_RS]

I would go with the 16g turbo since youre getting a new one. FMIC and 190 Walbro (possibly rewired 190) would be good ideas. I would go with 550 CC injectors too as well as some type of engine management (S-AFCII). Agreed with the above. A narowband AF gauge will do you no good. If you get one be sure its a wideband. Maybe also an oil gauge and a boost gauge. You never really mention whether or not you were gonna go with TBE or CBE, so which one?
an E316G with supporting mods is a mean machine, id go with that if I were you.

 

[lukes1g]

Haha... Yeah I know thats alot for one train of thought. Im just trying to plan out my winter.
Right now I am just trying to sift through the opinions and decide what is best for me the 14b or the 16g. Both have their up-sides. This is my idea based on the size of my wallet and how confident I feel in self tuning and care for my supporting mods. Correct me if you thing I am wrong here.
-I feel the smart choice for me would be finding a ported 14b and using the rewire and the 190lph pump. (don't worry I don't plan to skip any steps in the upgrade path list in that link, before turning up the boost... I just need to get a new fuel pump in asap). -this way I can save the money on the heavy supporting mods right off the bat and just work to build my supporting mods to make my 14b really strong.
Plus that way I feel confident knowing I can do it correctly without having to cut corners and still be able to afford it and not alter anything too terribly much. Does anyone know off hand what the AVERAGE peak boost and HP people push with a 14b.

-Eclipse98_RS... I am planning to go with a turbo-back, with a cat-delete I think
-I did forget also that I do have a K&N filter. (step 1.)

Let me know what you think about this plan?
Thanks so much thus far

 

[1slo1g]

I have a buddy pushing 20 psi on his 14b. The thing rips I wouldn't go much higher then that, but i have heard of 25 psi on 14b but thats pushing that lil turbo a lil too much

 

[Eclipse98_RS]

I think it sounds good. The 14b is also a strong turbo and can hold upwards of around 25 psi (not that you would want it that high) Like 1slo1g said 20 PSI should be about your goal on that turbo with all the supporting mods. In the future you might want to get DSMlink when you have saved up enough, but its not needed right now. A pocket logger would be a good idea just for any issues that may arrise. Good luck man. Let us know how it goes

 

[dsm-onster]

A rewired stock fuel pump becomes a 150 lph pump. You want to swap in a 190? You'll not have anyfuel pressure overrun issues either.

A 14B compressor has plenty in it for your goals. I'd get a used one. If you still have a hard time reaching your goal, just buy a $50 used 7cm^2 turbine housing. It is a direct swap for a 14b 6cm^2 housing, and you'll have the EXACT hotside an evo3 16g has! Plenty to wring out that 14b compressor. And the total is way cheaper than a 16g.

Do nothing w/out an aftermarket boost gauge and a logger. You'll be fine w/ the stock maf for 250whp. But pushing much more and you start to overrun the maf. It will then spit out lower flow levels than actual and you will run destructively lean.

I see many guys run 250whp w/ a stock sidemount. You'll need a cooldown between runs to get the most out of it, but it's already installed and free.

You're goals are on the line. Pick a side for now. Do you want 250whp or 300? 250whp can be achieved w/ stock fuel and airmetering. 300 requires a maf upgrade and a means to alter the signal for the ecu to read it correctly. And this will also give you the option of cntrolling larger injectors that are neccesary for 300whp.

So for 250whp you can use stock fuel pump, stock injectors, stock maf, another used stock turbo (cheap), stock intercooler.

For 300whp you can get away w/ using the stock fuel pump, you'll need 550s at least, a maf upgrade and a fuel controller, and an intercooler upgrade will save alot of headaches.

Don't forget to mod your stock bypass valve to insure that it will hold decent boost. It's likely not neccesary for either current goal, but it's good insurance.

 

[UMR98GSX]

Don't forget to mod your stock bypass valve to insure that it will hold decent boost. It's likely not neccesary for either current goal, but it's good insurance.

He already has a Type-S. Just clearing the confusion so he doesn't think he has one more thing to do.

 

[dsm-onster]

He already has a Type-S. Just clearing the confusion so he doesn't think he has one more thing to do.

Oh! thanx for catchign that, buddy . As long as it is recirculated, unless he upgrades to a MAFT, then he's good.