Valve cover questions

[KOG_GSX]

Ok, here's the back story: I just rebuilt my engine and NOW am deciding to powdercoat my valve cover - yah, I could beat myself up for not doing it during the rebuild! So here are my questions regarding the new project at hand:

1) Will I have to replace the current valve cover gasket, spark plug gaskets and half moon gasket? Even tho the gaskets are new?

2) I'm hearing RTV and gasket sealer, are they two different sealers that I need to use? Do I use both or just 1? Which one?

3) Can somebody PLEASE give me visuals on the places I need to put the RTV and/or gasket sealer! The one from the service manual is too confusing, real pix (not drawings) will be appreciated.

4) Is there a pattern to re-bolt the valve cover? I'm hearing inside out, I'm hearing in a star pattern, which one is best or correct? And with this answer, can somebody please give me a visual on the pattern, ie, a pic with numbered circles as to the pattern I should follow.

Thanks for the help.

 

[FL_TalonTsi]

Well you are making this much bigger of a deal than it actually is. Just go to autozone, discount auto, your local auto store and get the felpro gasket set for your valve cover, about $30 and you get a brand new valve cover gasket, the spark plug gaskets and half moon seal. The only thing you might want to worry about is not to tighten the valve cover down to hard as all dsmers know the valve covers like to crack. As for the rtv with a new gasket you really don't need it. Correct me if i'm wrong but the only place you might need it would be on the half moon seal. I didn't use rtv and mine is fine, doesn't leak anywhere.

 

[kenamond]

I agree with getting a new VC gasket set.

They recommend putting a *small* dab at all of the "corners" of the main gasket (you'll know what I mean when you look at the gasket) and all the way around the half-moon seal.

When you put the gasket back on, make damned sure that everything stays put until it's seated to the head (I broke my VC because one of the spark plug gaskets fell part of the way out).

When you torque the VC back on, you should work middle-ish out, but in MANY passes. The gaskets compress a bunch, and if you tighten too much in one spot, you will be stressing the VC around that bolt and can easily break it (it's probably 1/16" thick in places, and it's aluminum). I went over it in - no kidding - 15 or so passes, but I was being overly cautious since the thing cost me so much to replace. And the torque spec on the VC bolts is VERY small. Hand-tightening with a nut driver is plenty. Most torque wrenches don't even go low enough for the torque spec (under 5ft-lb, but I forget the exact number off-hand). Just be careful and tighten all bolts in an in-to-out pattern in increments until they're all nut-driver-hand-tight. And I don't mean as-tight-as-you-can-possibly-get-them-with-a-two-handed-death-grip-and-grunting-loudly-with-a-nut-driver either.

 

[KOG_GSX]

"Inside out"... starting with the outside 8 bolts first, or from inside the spark plug cover? That inside-out term is very confusing, can you give me a visual with the order numbered on it, if possible?

 

[SwitchSkier]

Start with the ones inside the spark plug cover. You can call it center-out if you want. That's not as important as making sure you just do them all in small increments and don't overtighten. Also, about the RTV thing, I use just a little of the one for valve covers to hold the gaskets in the valve cover while you flip it over and place it on the head.

"Inside out"... starting with the outside 8 bolts first, or from inside the spark plug cover? That inside-out term is very confusing, can you give me a visual with the order numbered on it, if possible?

 

[Defiant]

Not to cause confusion, but the inside corners are where valve covers crack. I "tighten" them last, although the tiny bit of twist put on them hardly counts as "tightening". Just take them down to snug.
Use RTV (which is gasket sealer) only on the half-moon seals. Used on the outer rim serves only to lubricate it and encourage leaks.
If your gaskets feel new, they're close enough to pass for it.

 

[tom04841]

I have found that if the gasket doesn't stay, use a dab of 3M weather strip adhesive here and there to hold the gasket to the cover....not on the sealing surface.

 

[wcpierson]

Might as well do the the PCV valve at the same time... OEM by the way

 

[DSMunknown]

1) Will I have to replace the current valve cover gasket, spark plug gaskets and half moon gasket? Even tho the gaskets are new?

I would. Just click here.

2) I'm hearing RTV and gasket sealer, are they two different sealers that I need to use? Do I use both or just 1? Which one?

Permatex Ultra Black RTV Silicone Sealant.

3) Can somebody PLEASE give me visuals on the places I need to put the RTV and/or gasket sealer! The one from the service manual is too confusing, real pix (not drawings) will be appreciated.

No pictures needed. When you have the new gaskets (the valve cover gasket and the spark plug gaskets), put a lot of the Permatex RTV silicone on your hands and smear it all along the gaskets. If you care about getting your hands dirty, buy some nitrile gloves (if you don't know what those are, just go to NAPA and ask for some disposable mechanic's gloves; they'll come in a box of 100 or so). Massage the gaskets with the RTV so the RTV is all over the gaskets like white on rice. There you go.

When it comes to the arch, just rub a little bit of RTV on the arch and on the flat spot. Don't put any RTV on the sides.

Also make sure the metail areas on the head and on the valve cover are cleaned off. It's just a good idea to do. You don't need a toothbrush for this small job, just take a rag and get the oily residue off (wherever the new gaskets will come into contact).

Most torque wrenches don't even go low enough for the torque spec (under 5ft-lb, but I forget the exact number off-hand).

2.3-to-2.5 ft.lbs. But take Mack's advice. Or read through this thread. It's basically got the same info.

 

[kmoore]

Just to give you another opinion but, I used a brand new gasket (Advance Auto Parts: Felpro gasket) with RTV on the half moon. And then I tightened it down center out and it leaked on me.

So eventually the only way I could get it to seal correctly was to dry the surfaces and put a THIN layer of RTV around the entire gasket surface. Then I waited for the rtv to "dry" and then fired her up. THEN it finally sealed. Just another situation

 

[BoostedinSoFla]

I was told the same thing too...to not use RTV on the gasket but only on the half moon seal and it leaked like hell and it was well tightened. So I took the VC back off and used a nice thin layer of RTV and it hasn't leaked since so please use some RTV; a nice thin layer.

 

[DSMunknown]

I was told the same thing too...to not use RTV on the gasket but only on the half moon seal and it leaked like hell and it was well tightened

Whoever told you that is a jackass. Don't ever let them come near your car again. Not even to go for a ride. They don't deserve it.

 

[Talesin]

The factory spec is 36in/lb maximum (3ft/lb). Sears sells an in/lb torque wrench, and it's a VERY good investment at $75, with the number of parts on our cars that use inch-pound torque specs.
I only have a dab of RTV along the sides of the half-moon, and my VC gasket doesn't even seep. If you do it right, and have good clean surfaces, you do not need to RTV the whole thing to get a good seal.

 

[DSMunknown]

If you do it right, and have good clean surfaces, you do not need to RTV the whole thing to get a good seal.

Couldn't disagree with you more. In this instance, RTV is necessary. It's both easy and effective.

 

[BoostedinSoFla]

Whoever told you that is a jackass. Don't ever let them come near your car again. Not even to go for a ride. They don't deserve it.

It's funny cause I got the info from here and I personally know people that claim that the gasket itself creates a good enough seal.

 

[KOG_GSX]

I was told the same thing too...to not use RTV on the gasket but only on the half moon seal and it leaked like hell and it was well tightened. So I took the VC back off and used a nice thin layer of RTV and it hasn't leaked since so please use some RTV; a nice thin layer.

Ok, Ive been reading a lot of different opinions on this lately...and this is what I've come up with to be the safest way to guarantee a good seal. To put a thin layer of RTV black sealant on the entire vc gasket, a thin layer on the "top" of the spark plug gaskets (on the vc side to ensure they stick while I turn the vc right side up to reinstall it), rtv all the way around the half moon gasket, and of course, hand tightening all the bolts one snug at a time until I come to a point where every bolt seems to be hand tightened snugly!

 

[KOG_GSX]

When it comes to the arch, just rub a little bit of RTV on the arch and on the flat spot. Don't put any RTV on the sides.

Is this regarding the hump(s) on the head? You're saying put rtv on the top of the humps on the head?

 

[SwitchSkier]

Is this regarding the hump(s) on the head? You're saying put rtv on the top of the humps on the head?

He means the half moon gasket.

 

[synthetek]

Couldn't disagree with you more. In this instance, RTV is necessary. It's both easy and effective.

I re used my old gasket when I installed my powder coated cover because the new gasket I ordered did not arrive yet and the old one was still in good shape, no rtv a year later & no leaking at all. The new gasket is still sitting in my garage because I never needed it. rtv is not necessary if you do it correctly. I never use rtv where its not specified by the factory and my car has no leaks.

 

[KOG_GSX]

^^^ I'm not far from La Palma, do you go to any of the LA DSM meets? Anyway, this is all becomming a thing of experience. Some are using RTV, some aren't, and the results vary between the two procedures. I did this procedure WAY back in 2001, a year after I bought the car, and a couple months later I had to take it to mitsu ### the vc was leaking by the half moon. I remember NOT putting any sealant, and that was my experience. I just had a fresh set, like explained earlier, of gaskets installed bcuz of my rebuild, but this time around I want to be careful and take precautions, that's why I'm not only installing a new set, but I'm putting a light coat of sealant around the entire gasket.

 

[Talesin]

Do as you like... it's less a matter of opinion, and more that some people can get the VC to seal up with just the gasket, as OEM spec. Others can't, and slather the thing with RTV. Either way works.. just going to be harder to get the VC off down the road if you RTV the hell out of it. Why we have tutorials about using a pair of putty knives and all this other crazy crap... with just the gasket and dabbing the edges of the half-moon, the VC comes right off the next time you need to check under it or do any work there. Slapping RTV all over it, you get to resort to weird methods to pry it off, hopefully without damaging it too much.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

I just followed the manual. It said use RTV, so I did and it hasn't leaked since. You guys are making the VC gasket harder then it is. I did get a metal half moon gasket that seems to seal better then the rubber/plastic one. I don't remember where I got my gasket set though.