Question regarding BC 272 cams. Do I need adjustable cam gears?

[ziggys95tsi]

My friend is installing them tomorrow and Im just wondring If i can set them to anything to maybe see some performance changes. I have DSMlink and can tune that decently so should I just leave them be or maybe advance or retard a little to get some more power. ?Also can they be changed when on the car incase the engine doesn't perform as well ? They are the Adj. Fidanza gears and any help from anybody maybe with some experience would be appreciated!!!!

 

[absolute_DSM]

Adjusting them on the dyno is the way to go.

 

[ziggys95tsi]

so just leave them regular for now?

 

[csgsx23]

I would leave them zero'd out for now.

 

[chicagoavenger]

Yup untill you get that thing on a dyno leave them at 0.

 

[ziggys95tsi]

Thanx guys

 

[96gstdsm]

OK well just as the title says. I just bought some Brian Crower cams(272's) I am having my head rebuilt now. Already head a 6 bolt rebuilt block installed. I am running a big 16g turbo with all fuel support. I searched through 8 pages regarding "cam gears". I did not find any real answer to whether or not I will need adjustable cam gears with these cams?

Sorry if I was just blind and looked past the answer. But all I saw was people saying the Crower race cams would most likely need them. If I don't need them that would be much better as it seems most adjustable cam gears are just set to 0 and then basically just there for looks.

 

[notsofastdsm55]

crower and brian crower are two different things, as for needing cam gears, you MIGHT be able to get away with it but the I would spend the extra money on the cam gears just because not all parts are the same, as in they all have variations and cam gears cam help degree in those cams to perfection as well as (if you know what you're doing) dial in your torque curve!

 

[c4uldr0n]

only useful if you plan to dyno tune your car, otherwise they look good!

 

[96gstdsm]

only useful if you plan to dyno tune your car, otherwise they look good!

Well I am going to have my car dyno tuned. But is it necessary to buy the cam gears? Will I have any problems with how my setup will run without getting them? How much of an improvement is it if I do get cam gears and have it dyno tuned?

 

[esoung]

isn't 272/272 a little too much for a 16g?

other than that, you may want to consider getting adjustable cam gear for retardation for midrange pull. 272/272 maybe a little too up top, but i don't how your engine is built and what's the redline for it.

Well I am going to have my car dyno tuned. But is it necessary to buy the cam gears? Will I have any problems with how my setup will run without getting them? How much of an improvement is it if I do get cam gears and have it dyno tuned?

as for the dyno tuning, adjustable cams gears adjust the retardation and timing. extremely important for 272/272 if you want max power and to run high boost to the max that your 16g and car can handle to prevent knocking and to adjust the range you want it to pull at.

 

[96gstdsm]

well being fwd I would rather have the power in the upper rpms. Traction will be a problem. Right now I have a rebuilt 6 bolt block. I am having a rebuilt head with bc valve springs put in along with the bc 0101 cams or whatever they are called. Will these lose a lot of mid range pull also without adjustable cam gears? This is my daily driver so would still like some mid range power. How bad is the low rpm pull with 272's? Will it be like powerless in the low rpm's? I have no experience with cams yet.

 

[vaboys2ndgen]

i picked up some fidanza adj. cam gears for my BC 272s roughly $180 for both gears

 

[tiresmoke69]

I had hks 272's in my front wheel drive laser and i had hks adjustable cam gears... I drove it like 800 miles with them set at 0* When i got my car dynoed it gained 5wph over the base run after only adjusting exhaust cam. So you don't have to have them unless you want to fine tune your setup.

 

[96gstdsm]

So when I see people saying how you lose lower and midrange pull, how drastic is it? Will it not make the car fun for daily driving anymore? Will I still have more midrange power over stock or will it be less than my stock cams? Will the only place I will benefit with these 272's be in the high rpm's? When people say they are great for high rpm's how high are we talking about here? How will it pull from when I get boost? Will I hit full boost later on now? I have them on the way but trying to see if I bought them too soon or not. I do have a full setup with fully rebuilt 6 bolt block and gonna have a built 7 bolt head. I have full fuel setup with tuning and brand new big 16g turbo. FMIC exhaust, clutch everything.

 

[96gstdsm]

I had hks 272's in my front wheel drive laser and i had hks adjustable cam gears... I drove it like 800 miles with them set at 0* When i got my car dynoed it gained 5wph over the base run after only adjusting exhaust cam. So you don't have to have them unless you want to fine tune your setup.

How bad was the low rpm and midrange rpm power level? I am getting a little worried that it won't pull hard at all in those areas. If I just get really good top end like 5 grand and above I don't know if I will be liking these cams much. As I said before this is strictly my daily driver.

Oh also how much power and what turbo were you running and all with your fwd setup with the 272's?

How much of a difference can retarding the timing to gain more mid range power with adjustable cam gears make?

 

[esoung]

272/272 are on top-end power. i find it kind of weird that you would go as aggressive as 272/272 with a 16g turbo which doesn't need top-end and has barely any turbo lag.

normally 272/272 are fully built engine, i.e. forge pistons, rods, the ful setup for 9k redline so they will compensate for the big turbo lag.

as far as...

I had hks 272's in my front wheel drive laser and i had hks adjustable cam gears... I drove it like 800 miles with them set at 0* When i got my car dynoed it gained 5wph over the base run after only adjusting exhaust cam. So you don't have to have them unless you want to fine tune your setup.

depends on what setup you have. if you have bare minimum it's a possibility that +5whp, but with the proper setup of the modified engine it could range anywhere from +30-45whp untune just swap.

 

[96gstdsm]

272/272 are on top-end power. i find it kind of weird that you would go as aggressive as 272/272 with a 16g turbo which doesn't need top-end and has barely any turbo lag.

normally 272/272 are fully built engine, i.e. forge pistons, rods, the ful setup for 9k redline so they will compensate for the big turbo lag.

Brian Crower does not make any 264 cam's. I had read some places that the 272's were good for the 16g turbos. The price was awesome on them and they have been out of stock for ever so thought I would pick up a pair. I can still always sell them if I want, but what I want to know first is how bad lower and mid range power will be with them. I'm sure high end power will be much better but being a daily driver thats not all that matters.

So if I use my stock cams instead then how bad will the top end be? Will it die out well before redline? Kinda like the t-25 does? I would really like to be able to rev all the way up to near the redline and still be making great power without any dying out.

 

[esoung]

How bad was the low rpm and midrange rpm power level? I am getting a little worried that it won't pull hard at all in those areas. If I just get really good top end like 5 grand and above I don't know if I will be liking these cams much. As I said before this is strictly my daily driver.

Oh also how much power and what turbo were you running and all with your fwd setup with the 272's?

How much of a difference can retarding the timing to gain more mid range power with adjustable cam gears make?

as far as i can tell with your car you definitely need to get the adjustable cam gears with retard the cams. with a 16g you do need top-end power. i mean what's the spool range for the 16g?

 

[vaboys2ndgen]

i maybe way off but i thought

BC stg 1 -264s
BC stg 2 -272s
BC stg3 -280s

 

[TSIMonsteR]

272s will be fine with a 16g, and perfect when you upgrade to something bigger. Also, cam-gears aren't really worth the time and money for a street car. You can get them at any time later if you decide you want them. They do help to squeeze little drops of power out of any given set-up. You will lose some low-midrange, but your peak HP will be increased.

Cliff notes:
Cams good
Cam gears not needed

 

[TSIMonsteR]

i maybe way off but i thought

BC stg 1 -264s
BC stg 2 -272s
BC stg3 -280s

Yes, but find me a set of stage 1s. Brian Crower doesn't even list them. He starts at stage 2: http://briancrower.com/makes/mitsubishi/4g63.shtml

So, theoretically, they don't exist.... (unfortunately too, I bet they would sell)

 

[vaboys2ndgen]

haha nvm.

 

[notsofastdsm55]

If I recall the BC 272's degree in a little differently than hks ones I think the exhuast is retarded a little to help with bottom end (to increase lobe seperation, common mod on dsm's) the BC 272's are supposed to be more drivable than hks....I just can't remember were I read that???? Maybe one of the vendors could chime in here.

 

[dsm-onster]

Not all 272s are the same. Advertised duration means little to nothing. What is the duration at .05" lift? Tehya re the same as FP2s and FP2Xs. Also the same as FP3s. HKS 272s fall on it's face at 9K. My FP2Xs are not in a built motor (not any more built than yours), and they're one of its greatest asets. Considering the power band of the 1g head/intake, the 212 duration at 0.05" lift is very complimentary. Tehre's plenty of cam by the best rpm for the head/intake. And there's enough cam to "negate" much of the loss past 6500rpms up to stock redline.

Considering that you in fact do have a relatively quick spooling turbo, then you actually can get away w/ higher duration cams and maintain decent streetability.

Also, my FP2X cams were GREAT dialed straight up w/ my SMALL 16G. The little turbo fell off in *boost* up top. But! a fall off in boost is not the same as a fall off in power. If you like looking at a boost gauge when driving, then stick w/ stock cams. But considering your setup, adding just a larger downpipe should "negate" any lowend loss.

ShapeGSX, one of the first guys around here to get an EVO3 16G into the 11s noticed NO difference in track times switching between hks 264s and hks 272s. If you do indeed stick w/ these cams, you'll end up having the cams there for even a minor upgrade such as a 10 degree clip to your big 16G. Now if you never ever plan on going bigger than what you have now (or even modifying what you have now), then smaller cam duration would have been fine.

An adjustable exhuast cam gear will net an even quicker spool. ANY adjustment to increase VE and/or reduce spool time in the lower range WILL take power away up top. We don't have VVT. On the street this is an accepable sacrifice w/ larger turbos. If you do decide to do something like clip your turbine then I can see retarding the exhaust cam a few degrees VERY beneficial for the street, but probably would do nothing but hurt at the track.

Put the cams in and drive it. If you don't like it, buy one adjustable cam gear for the exhaust. Retard your cam timing until you feel like the balance of midrange and top end is where you want it. It's that simple. You don't NEED a dyno to dial in a set of cams for where you feel the power band should be. All you really need are decent logs of airflow vs. rpms.

Retarding the exhaust cam or advancing the intake cam, though yielding quicker spool, due to overlap, infacts causes a lopey, LESS streetable idle. So yea, you'll insure a street orianted power band, but can it idle at a stop light. Does ECU+ allow you to raise your rev limit if neccesary?