New 6 bolt block swap and new fuel and turbo now white smoke and oils smells like gas

[96gstdsm]

Well I had made another thread a little while ago since I thought a place had over filled my car with oil. Seemed like the level was high but I think that might have been caused by my gas getting into the oil.
Well to give some info here, I have my car at a shop. I bought a completely rebuilt 6 bolt block. They installed that along with my stock 2g head. New big 16go turbo, 190 fuel pump rewired as well as ECU+ engine management. They also put in a mitsubishi mls headgasket and arp 6 bolt headstuds. Everything was zero'd out with the ECU+ so should be running normal as if I didn't have it installed. My car seemed fine, other than a cylinder 3 misfire on the drive home(expected with the 6 bolt). The next day(after an oil change) I got my car home and noticed it was smoking a lot out the exhaust. I popped the hood and saw that it was leaking something out the exhaust manifold as well. Seemed to be oil coming out and there was definitely an exhaust leak there. So I decided to have my car towed back to the shop that did the install. They took a look at it and confirmed that it was definitely white smoke meaning coolant and or water. compression tested it and the numbers were very good(about 180 in every cylinder) Took the head off and the headgasket was in perfect condition.

The guy was saying maybe it is the head being messed up. What could mess it up to allow this to happen? Until the new engine was put in I was daily driving it with no problems. So seems to be a crazy coincidence for this to just happen. Could the oil smelling like fuel be related or something entirely different?
The oil does seem really thin and runny as well. I would think that is why the oil level seemed to be high when checked it the next day.

I have the head at a shop and they are going to check it but don't know when.

Having good compression in every cylinder and the headgasket being in perfect shape as well as the block looking still brand new he said. What could be causing this? Could the 190 rewired without a afpr cause the injectors to over run or something and leak gas thus getting into the oil?
The spark plugs looked good he said, maybe slightly rich.

Sorry for the long post but been hard to get any responses here or people that know what this could be.
The guy at the shop said this is the most confused he has ever been with a dsm and he works strictly on them for over 15 years.

-----Ryan.

 

[williamdsm]

Well I had made another thread a little while ago since I thought a place had over filled my car with oil. Seemed like the level was high but I think that might have been caused by my gas getting into the oil.
Well to give some info here, I have my car at a shop. I bought a completely rebuilt 6 bolt block. They installed that along with my stock 2g head. New big 16go turbo, 190 fuel pump rewired as well as ECU+ engine management. They also put in a mitsubishi mls headgasket and arp 6 bolt headstuds. Everything was zero'd out with the ECU+ so should be running normal as if I didn't have it installed. My car seemed fine, other than a cylinder 3 misfire on the drive home(expected with the 6 bolt). The next day(after an oil change) I got my car home and noticed it was smoking a lot out the exhaust. I popped the hood and saw that it was leaking something out the exhaust manifold as well. Seemed to be oil coming out and there was definitely an exhaust leak there. So I decided to have my car towed back to the shop that did the install. They took a look at it and confirmed that it was definitely white smoke meaning coolant and or water. compression tested it and the numbers were very good(about 180 in every cylinder) Took the head off and the headgasket was in perfect condition.

The guy was saying maybe it is the head being messed up. What could mess it up to allow this to happen? Until the new engine was put in I was daily driving it with no problems. So seems to be a crazy coincidence for this to just happen. Could the oil smelling like fuel be related or something entirely different?
The oil does seem really thin and runny as well. I would think that is why the oil level seemed to be high when checked it the next day.

I have the head at a shop and they are going to check it but don't know when.

Having good compression in every cylinder and the headgasket being in perfect shape as well as the block looking still brand new he said. What could be causing this? Could the 190 rewired without a afpr cause the injectors to over run or something and leak gas thus getting into the oil?
The spark plugs looked good he said, maybe slightly rich.

Sorry for the long post but been hard to get any responses here or people that know what this could be.
The guy at the shop said this is the most confused he has ever been with a dsm and he works strictly on them for over 15 years.

-----Ryan.

I don't know if a 190lph absolutely NEEDS an afpr...but when I asked about getting a walbro 255 I was told i very much needed one, or gas would get into my oil. so that could be your problem!

 

[96gstdsm]

I knew the 255 needed one. But from what I have read that you don't really need an afpr with a 190. Maybe occasionally you do. As I have learned these dsm's seem to all act differently with the same exact setups.

 

[96gstdsm]

Any wiseman have any ideas? Anyone? Been trying to find out about this on here for a while now and still no one seems to know. The shop my car is at does not know either. Anyone have any good possibilities as to what it might be?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

How many miles are on the car? is the smoke getting less and less the more you drive your car?

If you had smoke coming out of the exhaust manifold, did you check if your valve stem seals were wet with oil?

Did you get the head milled, or did you just assume it was ok? If you are running MLS, BOTH the head AND the block need to be milled/decked for flatness.

Did you know full synthetic oil burns white? Don't assume white smoke means coolant/water.

Do you have a fully functional PCV system? My car smoked like crazy when I had a faulty PCV (white/blue smoke at idle and thick white/blue smoke under boost).

Did he do a leak down test? Just looking at a headgasket doesn't mean much. If the car is back together, have him do a leak down test to make sure your MLS isn't leaking into a cylinder.

Are you sure your ECU+ is programmed appropriately according to your injector size? A drastic injector can cause excess fuel burning if you aren't corrected properly.

are you sure your SAFC is wired correctly? Meaning zero-d out, 4 cyl, up arrow, karman?

Are you sure your 16G is not defective? Pull your o2 housing (inspect for wetness), LICP, and intake pipe for wetness.

 

[cobb]

How many miles is there on the 16g?? I know when i installed mine the car was a mosquitoe fogger...white smoke..and after i ran it for like 45 mins about 30 miles it stoped smoking...so the turbo might not be broke in yet..but i havent realy heard of gas just directly effecting the oil level before i have heard of it just smelling like gas...so i hoped that helped you.

 

[96gstdsm]

How many miles are on the car? is the smoke getting less and less the more you drive your car?

If you had smoke coming out of the exhaust manifold, did you check if your valve stem seals were wet with oil?

Did you get the head milled, or did you just assume it was ok? If you are running MLS, BOTH the head AND the block need to be milled/decked for flatness.

Did you know full synthetic oil burns white? Don't assume white smoke means coolant/water.

Do you have a fully functional PCV system? My car smoked like crazy when I had a faulty PCV (white/blue smoke at idle and thick white/blue smoke under boost).

Did he do a leak down test? Just looking at a headgasket doesn't mean much. If the car is back together, have him do a leak down test to make sure your MLS isn't leaking into a cylinder.

Are you sure your ECU+ is programmed appropriately according to your injector size? A drastic injector can cause excess fuel burning if you aren't corrected properly.

are you sure your SAFC is wired correctly? Meaning zero-d out, 4 cyl, up arrow, karman?

Are you sure your 16G is not defective? Pull your o2 housing (inspect for wetness), LICP, and intake pipe for wetness.

Ok well I have not been driving it now. It is 100 miles away at the shop at this time. After installing the rebuilt 6 bolt block there are only 150 miles put on it. I am reusing my old 2g head. It was fine prior to doing the swap.
Unfortunately I did not do much of the checking myself so can only rephrase what I have been told. Figured I payed him enough money so would just bring it back to him to fix.

The head is at a shop right now so if they ever get around to checking it that might help a little. He said he did not see any oil coming off the valve stem seals or anything.

I told the guy to check the head for flatness and fix if needed. He said it seemed fine and reused it as is.

I was using regular non synthetic oil for the break in period of the engine.

The pcv system was fine prior to bringing it there. NO smoke or anything. I got some crappy fuel filter thing hooked up in my breather hose line to the intake. Think that might be blocked up a little bit.

He did do a leak down test and said it came out pretty good not perfect bu good. Nothing to show any problems.

I have the stock 450 cc injectors in still until I finish breaking in the engine. So wouldn't be that.

I do not have an afc. Using ecu+ for all tuning and data logging.

The big 16g is brand new. I checked shaft play and zero, no oil in the intake pipe what so ever. Same with the licp. Did not check the o2 housing though.


What do I have to check for the pvc system to make sure that is working correctly?

 

[96gstdsm]

How many miles is there on the 16g?? I know when i installed mine the car was a mosquitoe fogger...white smoke..and after i ran it for like 45 mins about 30 miles it stoped smoking...so the turbo might not be broke in yet..but i havent realy heard of gas just directly effecting the oil level before i have heard of it just smelling like gas...so i hoped that helped you.

I don't know for sure if it did actually effect he oil level. Just after getting an oil change I noticed the level was high and i smelled like gas as well. I have not driven it after I did an oil change again with the correct amount according to my oem replacement oil dip stick. Most likely there is not actually gas effecting the oil level. I talked with the mechanic today and he said that it looked like it might have ran a little rich but nothing crazy at all. Spark plugs still looked good and all he said.

 

[96gstdsm]

How would the bad pcv system make it smoke bad? It couldn't cause coolant to get there correct? What would be smoking if it was indeed bad?

There was coolant or some sort of liquid on the exhaust runners of the cylinder head and nothing on the intake ones. Was thinking maybe something to do with the throttle body, but they guy said for some reason he blocked off the coolant to there anyways.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

How would the bad pcv system make it smoke bad? It couldn't cause coolant to get there correct? What would be smoking if it was indeed bad?

There was coolant or some sort of liquid on the exhaust runners of the cylinder head and nothing on the intake ones. Was thinking maybe something to do with the throttle body, but they guy said for some reason he blocked off the coolant to there anyways.

trust me the PCV system can make your car smoke like a train, mine did.

Your CLUE IS RIGHT THERE. If you have liquid in your exhaust ports, there is something up with the head.

Oh, and if your mechanic says "it seemed flat" (regarding your head), then smack him. He needs to check it with a level and then pressure test it. Also, even though your head may have been OK before the rebuild, once you remove the head from the bind of the headstuds/bolts, it alters the flatness of the block due to the torque changing. In most cases it won't make a difference, but there are cases that will.

As for you answering all of my other questions, i'm pretty stumped besides my suggestion that I just posted.

 

[96gstdsm]

trust me the PCV system can make your car smoke like a train, mine did.

Your CLUE IS RIGHT THERE. If you have liquid in your exhaust ports, there is something up with the head.

Oh, and if your mechanic says "it seemed flat" (regarding your head), then smack him. He needs to check it with a level and then pressure test it. Also, even though your head may have been OK before the rebuild, once you remove the head from the bind of the headstuds/bolts, it alters the flatness of the block due to the torque changing. In most cases it won't make a difference, but there are cases that will.

As for you answering all of my other questions, i'm pretty stumped besides my suggestion that I just posted.

So could the pcv system cause liquid to be leaking out of the head? Or would that have to be a different problem? If so how could a faulty pcv system cause liquid to leak and smoke?
And also if it is indeed coolant or water is the only way for it to get into the head and leak, either a) bad headgasket---seemed fine when checked, bought brand new. b) crack in the block and c) crack or warped head? Anything else that could carry coolant there but not from the intake side?

 

[96gstdsm]

Update:

Ok well so far the guy said that the guides were shot and stem seals were worn out hard. None of this would cause it smoke white smoke though would it? He still is gonna check to see if it is warped or needs to be resurfaced or if there are any cracks in it.

 

[asiahispanico]

are you recirculating your BOV? i know when i first got my car and the bov was venting, everytime it would blow off it would smell strongly of fuel. Just my .02

 

[96gstdsm]

are you recirculating your BOV? i know when i first got my car and the bov was venting, everytime it would blow off it would smell strongly of fuel. Just my .02

Nope. The car does not have a rich gas smell to it when driving. Just smells like gas in the oil. My mechanic was saying that is normal, but for some reason that doesn't sound right to me. Is a little blow by normal for a newly rebuilt engine?

 

[96gstdsm]

UPDATE:
OK well I heard back from the shop with my cylinder head today. They said the pressure tested it to 60 psi. It did not show any cracks. They said however that it was a little warped. 7/1000th I guess or would it be 7/100th I don't know. Which ever one makes sense I guess. Said it shouldn't be enough to really cause a big problem. The valve guides are shot and the valve stem seals are warn out and all hard. So the head need to be rebuilt. Does any of this sound like something that can be causing white smoke?

I have been thinking that maybe it was blue smoke, but the shop my car is at insists it's white, even though it did seem to really billow out and linger around unlike coolant or water smoke.

Maybe someone has an idea of what it is?

This is how the smoke would come out;

When I would let it idle for a while it would get worse after some decent amount of time.

When I would give it quick throttle taps when parked it would puff out smoke. If I would rev it up a little and keep it at one rpm level it would get less, then when it would decell it would puff out more. Pretty much any time I would be changing the rpm's it would smoke more than during a consistent rpm range. When I actually drove it back from a mechanic near me to see if they knew anything, it was smoking really badly. The person following me said it was really billowing and lingering around not whisping away at all.
There is no coolant in the oil either.


Any ideas??
At this point I am rebuilding the head regardless but want to know if there is something else I should check for if this is not most likely the problem. The installer did block off the coolant to the throttle body for some reason. Is that going to cause problems? Did not ask for that but oh well.

For people that did not read my earlier posts in this thread, there is liquid which seemed to be oil coming out from the exhaust manifold and the head. Would bubble out from there. Was also an exhaust leak there obviously.

 

[96gstdsm]

Anyone got a clue? Fricken stumped now and the shop that rebuilt my engine and the one that is installing it are both saying different things regarding if the block was decked or not etc. So now I think I'm gonna have to go with a composite head gasket since the installer is saying the surface is not good enough for a mls one, which the shop said gave it a mirror polish.
From what I understand the mitsu oem head gasket should be plenty good paired up with some arp head studs correct?

But the main question still remains...What is wrong with my car?

I seem to be the lucky guy who has stumped everyone in the dsm community.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Not really stumped us, I honestly think your mechanic is bullshitting you. I bet he didn't deck the block or didn't mill the head and now your MLS is leaking. When you asked him, did he sound 150% sure that there was no leak? All i keep seeing in this thread is "he said he said", go to another shop and get another opinion.

 

[96gstdsm]

Not really stumped us, I honestly think your mechanic is bullshitting you. I bet he didn't deck the block or didn't mill the head and now your MLS is leaking. When you asked him, did he sound 150% sure that there was no leak? All i keep seeing in this thread is "he said he said", go to another shop and get another opinion.

Well the thing is I can't really take it somewhere else right now, the head is away at overbore getting built up right now. The compression test showed up near perfect. Once again from what I am told there was no oil in the coolant. Unfortunately I am 2 hours away from where this shop is so can't just stop by every once in a while.
If it was a bad seal with the mls head gasket or a warped head, would that cause coolant to get into the head and burn out the exhaust? From what I understand the head gasket was in good shape with no signs of anything wrong.
Once again this started to happen about 150 miles after the rebuild and I got it back. Is that likely or possible for the head gasket, if a bad seal, to be fine for like 150 200 miles then start leaking with no hard driving at all on it?

The block was decked and everything when I got it, the head was not. It will be now but not before. I asked the mechanic to, if needed, re surface the head, he didn't saying it was fine before so was good now! (sucks I know). This I found out after it was too late.
The head wound up needing rebuild anyways though, hardened and cracked valve stem seals, shot valve guides etc.
Gave me an excuse to get some 272's and valve springs and retainers at least.

How would it normally smoke out the exhaust from bad head gasket?


This is how I described the smoke in an earlier post.



When I would let it idle for a while it would get worse after some decent amount of time.

When I would give it quick throttle taps when parked it would puff out smoke. If I would rev it up a little and keep it at one rpm level it would get less, then when it would decell it would puff out more. Pretty much any time I would be changing the rpm's it would smoke more than during a consistent rpm range. When I actually drove it back from a mechanic near me to see if they knew anything, it was smoking really badly. The person following me said it was really billowing and lingering around not whisping away at all.

 

[96gstdsm]

Alright well to conclude this thread I hope, got the head rebuilt with cams and upgraded valve train etc and resurfaced head. This time I went with a oem composite gasket. So far no more white smoke or anything. Been running rough but dealing with other small problems now.
So I guess it turns out that you were right and I was just getting screwed by the mechanic. I had asked him to resurface the head if needed, and he said it was goo before so should be good again. Well will the head being slightly warped obviously it did not seal and that was the problem.
He also denied that it was his fault which was nice so I payed an extra $500 for the damn labor costs.
Well just hopefully it will work now and I'll be good to go.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

Well i'm glad you got it figured out. Make sure you retorque your head (if you're using ARP's) within a couple of heat cycles and do a compression/leakdown in the near future. As for that mechanic, I hope you're not taking your business to him anymore.