weird problem with my 1g 2.o N/T Talon

[youngone]

I got a real weird problem with my 1g 2.o N/T Talon. It's a long read


I left for lunch today and when I went to pull out and the car felt like I was starting in 3rd, I shifted to second and everything was fine. I came to a stop, put the car in first started letting the clutch out and again it felt like I was in 3rd. shifted too second and the car started too bog, shifted too 3 rd and all hell broke loose

It had major loss of power, I had too keep hitting the gas for it to stay running, then it started to backfire, I pulled into a gas station and it died. I tried starting it but it would just crank, finally it started but it didnt want to stay running, I had the pedal too the floor from 1st thru 4th and it crawled back to work.

I get back to work and it died, I popped the hood and let the car sit for about 5 minutes, I got in the car and it started right up with no problems, but there was a thud coming from under the valve cover towards the passenger side but it would only do it if it was rev'd, not at idle.

I took it for a ride and there was no loss of power, no backfire but now theres a knock that sounds like an octane knock and a vibration, I put fresh 93 gas in and it still does it.

I know it's a long read, but does anyone have any suggestions, theres no check engine light on.

 

[cfreeeeee]

it could be so many things, but it doesnt sound good.

 

[Talesin]

Remove the spark plugs and check them. If you have a combustion issue, they should tell you, or at least give you a clue as to which cylinder you need to check out.
After that, compression test. If one comes up bad, get a leakdown test after that and figure out what went bad.

Had a similar intermittent issue (never figured out what it was, but hasn't come back) where the car would only run on two cylinders, but the coilpack was fine, and the problem persisted even with a new CP.

Fill out your car profile! Don't know if the 2.0L N/T used EFI or a distributor, may want to take a look at that if it's the latter, check the cap and rotor for cracking, or just replace them preemptively.

 

[delta448]

First thing I would check is the timing. Second I'd do the compression test like John said. If that doesn't tell you anything abnormal I'd check the clutch and flywheel.

 

[youngone]

Remove the spark plugs and check them. If you have a combustion issue, they should tell you, or at least give you a clue as to which cylinder you need to check out.
After that, compression test. If one comes up bad, get a leakdown test after that and figure out what went bad.

Had a similar intermittent issue (never figured out what it was, but hasn't come back) where the car would only run on two cylinders, but the coilpack was fine, and the problem persisted even with a new CP.

Fill out your car profile! Don't know if the 2.0L N/T used EFI or a distributor, may want to take a look at that if it's the latter, check the cap and rotor for cracking, or just replace them preemptively.

Sorry about that, it's a 93 Talon N/T.


The knocking coming from under the pass. side of the valve cover could be a lifter, correct? Because I know my lifters used to make noise, but that went away for some odd reason. I pulled the timing belt cover and the belt looks good and it's tight.

I just need this thing to last till my Mustangs done, then I'm getting a 1g AWD.

 

[delta448]

The knocking coming from under the pass. side of the valve cover could be a lifter, correct? Because I know my lifters used to make noise, but that went away for some odd reason.

If its a lifter then it wouldn't likely be making much more than a very light ticking sound. Usually you only hear lifter tick at startup or idle, it's not very loud.

I pulled the timing belt cover and the belt looks good and it's tight.

Just because the belt is tight doesn't mean your timing is good.

In your original post you stated there was some vibration, is it more pronounced at a certain rpm or does it increase with rpm or vehicle speed?

 

[Talesin]

I had some pretty noisy lifters when I was still on the stockers... so they can get pretty loud. Not so bad on the 2G stockers from what I hear, but the 1G can sound like you tossed a handful of nuts and bolts under the VC, even after warmup. Also, the oil baffles are attached to the VC with weak little spot welds. Also had two of those come loose on one end, and the baffles just constantly flapped down against the cams, made for a really annoying rattle.

To make sure your timing belt is set right, just take a 1/2" drive ratchet and an extension. The end of the crankshaft on the driver's side has a square hole to connect one and hand-turn the crank, and a little plug in the wheelwell splashguard specifically for that. Only rotate it CLOCKWISE, or you may run into problems down the line.. people tend to skip timing if they go ccw for some reason, it's assumed that the hydraulic tensioner gets damaged for some reason. In any case, get #1 to TDC and lay a straightedge through the center of your timing gear bolts, and make sure the timing marks on the close edges of the timing gears actually line up, with the cam dowel pins (in the timing gears) pointed up.

I'd worry about rod knock or a spun bearing after that point, especially the latter if your oil pressure has dropped a lot recently while driving. Check the plugs and do the compression test before you start worrying *too* much though.

 

[youngone]

I'm sorry for the dumb questions, I know it gets a little trying it times but I have no clue about Japanese cars. Give me an American v8 and I'm good.


Today me and my friend tried to get a more in depth look at the problem, it's making a noise by the intake by the injectors and under the timing cover.

Again, I'm sorry but I would like to get a feel for these cars before I buy a 1G AWD, I will do everything you guys mentioned, considering you guys are the experts.


Thank you for your help. It's greatly appreciated.

 

[youngone]

If its a lifter then it wouldn't likely be making much more than a very light ticking sound. Usually you only hear lifter tick at startup or idle, it's not very loud.

The lifters used to make noise at start up, I mean to the point people would look at my car and think, damn, it's going to blow.

Just because the belt is tight doesn't mean your timing is good.

In your original post you stated there was some vibration, is it more pronounced at a certain rpm or does it increase with rpm or vehicle speed?

I was under the impression that the computer takes care of the timing. meaning if it was off it would fix it, atleast thats what my buddy told me. I'm used to distributors, not coil packs.

The vibration and the knocking which sounds like a octane knock only happens in the lower RPMS, below 2500. After that it runs smooth, but as soon as it goes below 2500, it happens.

Again, I ask that you bear with me, I'm really lost right now.

 

[Puscifer]

Check your timing -=)

I'm from v8's myself.. Coil Packs are pretty much a sub system for your ECU, it regulates your timing to advance or retard, yes.. but it controls the spark. Your timing belt can stretch over time and/or skip teeth. It sounds like you're off by about 3-4 teeth if it were to be the timing and the situation you're having with the bog downs. So, It'll adjust as much as it can but if it's off the "true" setting you're still going to have issues. because the vehicle think's it's lined up properly and lets say it advances 12 degrees, it'll be 12 degree's advanced from what it's getting as a setting which can be 3-4 teeth off. Circles? sorry.

If you can get under the car there's an access panel on the side of the tranny you can take off that should allow you to view your flywheel a good bit and you can check for clutch debris through there as well.

All in All, if your plugs / wires / pack is good, timing is dead on to specs. Get back with us and we'll stick it out with ya.

**edit**

Just remembered about a problem i was having with my 420a that was kind of like this. Turned out to be the fuel pump. easy to check the pressure w/ the shrader valve on the fuel line in under the hood.

 

[Talesin]

There's a difference between ignition timing and mechanical timing. The timing belt takes care of the mechanical timing. If it isn't on just right, since these are interference engines, you'll smack your valves with your pistons. Ignition timing is handled by the ECU.

2G handle timing in the ECU almost totally, as I understand it, and is not user-adjustable. On the 1G 4g63(t and na) you ground a connector on the firewall, just behind your battery... has/should have a plug clipped into it, and only one actual pin, with a plastic center sprue. Most people say to turn off the engine when you ground it, I just leave it running so I know when I've got it, as the idle changes pretty good when the ECU goes 'hands off' with that connector grounded, and stops trying to advance timing at idle for a more complete burn.

After that plug is grounded, on the passenger side of the intake cam there's a hockey-puck shaped sensor (cam angle sensor, CAS) held on with two nuts. Hook up your timing light, and loosen those nuts. Have someone watch the timing mark on the crank pulley (reference ruler is on the timing belt cover) and slowly rotate that sensor clockwise or counterclockwise until the timing is set 5 degrees BTDC. Have them keep watching it as you tighten down the nuts again so it doesn't slip around. Unground the connector on the firewall, and you're good to go. Think of the CAS like an alternate form of distributor.. rotate it one way to advance, the other way to retard the timing.

Oh, and wear gloves. The engine needs to be warmed up when you're doing this (and the fans/accessories/stereo can't be running when you adjust the timing or you might get a false read), and the sensor gets HOT.

Additionally, you should be idling at 750rpm with the car warmed up... if you're not, set that first... you'll need to ground the same connector on the firewall as for the timing, as well as one pin on your ODBI diagnostic plug to go into idle adjust mode. Can't remember which, but there's a writeup on VFAQ.com that should help you find it. Then just turn the BISS on the throttle body to adjust idle. It's usually under a rubber cap... again, see VFAQ for help locating it.
Oh, and fair warning, on a LOT of 1Gs, the ODBI plug has come loose from the driver's side cabin fusebox... usually it swings down behind the box and 'disappears', just gently tug bundles of cables until you find a loose one, it'll normally come up easy. You can re-clip it to the side of the fusebox if you like at that point, make it easier to find down the road. Just slides right on and clicks into place.