Which engine choice makes the most sense?

[Jaedon]

I recently purchased a '99 Eclipse Spyder non turbo 2.4 and I am at a decision point as to what I am going to do with the engine.

I have heard that it is possible to swap out the engine with a 6G74 (I believe I have that right .... it could be the 6G73) 6cyl engine out of a Diamante (or 3000GT) but I have yet to find anyone who has actually made the swap. This is one of the options I am looking in to.

The second option is to start adding on to the existing engine ( 4G63 ) and start my mods with a turbo and intercooler and build form there.

A few guys on a 3G site sent me here after I decided on a '99 over a 3G spyder as they were not sure on the choices.

So my first question is - does anyone know if it is really possible to swap out the 2.4 with a 3.5?

my second question is - if you answered yes to question #1 - what problems should I be aware of before I get started with it?

and lastly question #3 - which choice makes the most sense for getting the most solid performance out of the car ... best bang for the buck?

I hope the above questions made sense as I really am a newb car guy. I am a bus driver by profession and a photographer by hobby/desire. I love fast cars but this is my first "sports" car so I have a TON of questions as my learning curve currently is very close to vertical.

Jay

 

[FORMONTOYA]

1. What are your goals for the car?

2. What kind of experience/tools do you have, or available help/tools when you run into trouble?

3. If this is going to be considerably modded, do you have another car to drive while the "toy" is down?

4. Do you actually have enough money/time to tackle this project? Whatever amount you think you will need, multiply that by 3.

5. Is the "project" car up to date on maintenance? It does no good to put go-fast parts on a car that has issues.

Not trying to discourage you, but a lot of money, sweat and blood go into making a quality project car that isn't another POS rolling.

 

[staticbrainwash]

I wouldn't mess with an engine swap, i'd build the 2.4 for boost.

Mounting would be a pain, wiring would be a pain. Not worth it IMO.

Use the 2.4 (which is a 4g64 i believe not a 4g63 (which was only 2.0l)). Build it for boost, ie good rods lower compression. Throw on a good 50trim, or good street spooling turbo, and call it a day! If you want to get really over zealous you could swap a gsx drivetrain too.

 

[olmytsi]

Yeah, exactly, build the bottom end and do a 4g63 head swap on it and you can turbo it using all 4g63 turbo parts (maf, intake, turbo, exhaust manifold, etc). My buddy has one. He boosted it then blew the stock bottom end. So he got it built and did a 4g63 head swap and its a great lil sleeper.

 

[Jaedon]

1. What are your goals for the car?

It is my summer daily driver and I really only want to achieve around 230 - 240 HP in total... don't need to be the fastest guy out there but I want to have a really nice ride when I am done

2. What kind of experience/tools do you have, or available help/tools when you run into trouble?

No tools or experience so I will be dropping it off to have the work done (additional expense I know but a better quality job in the end)

3. If this is going to be considerably modded, do you have another car to drive while the "toy" is down?

I do have another car to drive when the toy is down. But I don't see the car being heavily modded if I can achieve my goals without too much difficulty

4. Do you actually have enough money/time to tackle this project? Whatever amount you think you will need, multiply that by 3.

I do have what I think it might cost set aside but in the fall I am expecting a financial settlement which would cover the x3 if that is what is needed.

5. Is the "project" car up to date on maintenance? It does no good to put go-fast parts on a car that has issues.

All regular maintenance has been done and will continue to be done as I am meticulous like that. No issues with the car that I or my mechanic could find during a 150 mile "test drive"

Not trying to discourage you, but a lot of money, sweat and blood go into making a quality project car that isn't another POS rolling.

Not getting discouraged and I really do appreciate the input as I currently have no idea what I am doing or how to get there yet.....but I will.....that's why I got the car.


What has been done so far to the car is basic. The exhaust has been slightly modded (I will be opening it up more than the previous owner did) from the header back. The suspension has been stiffened and strengthened to my liking and with the thought of more power down the line in our heads as it developed.


It is a 2.4 4G64 you are correct. I rechecked both the owners manual and the engine itself to make sure. So if I were to have the bottom built better and swap out the heads and such from a 4G63 could I improve upon the engine well enough to reach my goals?

 

[drivemusicnow]

First off, I'd like to thank you. You are a new member as well as being fairly new to the platform/cars in general, and yet you presented your questions clearly and concisely. I really appreciate it and will put a lot more time into my response because of it.

Almost everyone here is going to say swap the turbo head on, and use the oem mitsu parts to get to your goal. After looking into it, I agree with them. If I was going to do it this way, this is how I would do it as cost effectively as possible (minimum cost for 250hp but reliable) I would include the following parts:

2g 4g63 head, stock and used, or OEM style rebuild. approx 100-700$
2g intake and exhaust manifolds OEM (50$ each)
OEM sidemount Intercooler with upgraded hard pipes, or the Supra SMIC
New Timing belt, waterpump, pulleys, tensioner etc ($150)
Evo 3 o2 housing (50$)
14B turbo (1g oem turbo, buy a recently rebuilt one for 3-400$ with actuator)
2g fuel pump, fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator (OEM you could get cheap)
ACT 2100 clutch (250$)
550 CC injectors, and a S-AFC or NEO to tune. ($450 total)

I think you might have to have the exhaust be slightly customized to fit your car, so I don't know if i'd order just 2g FWD downpipes or exhaust systems.

I think overall parts cost would be around $2500, and labor would be extensive. If you're having a shop do all of it, you'll probably be spending quite a bit of money for this. I wouldn't rebuild the motor because lower boost, higher compression, and OEM parts will work great for 250hp. IF and when you push it further, then a rebuild may be in order.

A reputable DSM shop could do the work for you, and would most likely do it faster than any non DSM shop could possibly think about. Faster = less labor, and they would probably do it right the first time. A lot of this is stuff that you could do yourself with some basic tools, but don't try unless you're comfortable and confident that you can complete the task.

If you want to go "all out" right away, Build the motor completely, use a larger aftermarket turbo, and go aftermarket on all of the fuel parts (walbro pump, Adjustable Fuel pressure regulator, etc)

The engine swap idea would be MUCH easier for a shop to do, if it actually "drops in". But this never happens.
You would need to buy the engine, wiring harness, ECU, and possibly every single part listed on this website (http://wrenchmonkey.com/Webpages/6G74swap.html ) (that's just replacing the 6g72 with the 6g74)
An advantage is that you're not pushing any parts harder than they were designed to. It's an oem motor putting out slightly more power than it did stock, some custom headers and some cams and you'll be able to get 250 hp or more out of it.

The disadvantage is that it will take a lot of custom work and labor.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Basically what the guy above said would be the best way. Things you will definitely need:

From OEM 2G Turbo car:
Intake Mani
Intake Pipe/MAS
Fuel Rail and FPR
Stock Head
o2 housing
ECU
Stock Intercooler setup w/ hard Pipes

Aftermarket/Other Stuff:
Logger/SAFC At least
1g Bov
Evo 560cc injectors
Walbro 190 Pump
Evo3 16g Turbo

I have the o2 housing, ECU, Sidmount, HardPipes, and FPR if you want them. Just PM me.

That would effectively give you a nice 2.4l turbo car capable of meeting your goals for the least amount of money. I don't think the work involved is really extensive enough to not do yourself. There are plenty of people that have down the swap that should be able to give you more specific details. I would imagine your stock bottom end could handle wastegate pressure on 16g, but I maybe wrong. The logger would tell the tale.

 

[dsm-onster]

Great post Greg. It makes me want to swap a 2.4L into a blown 3g spider here for sale !

A question. Why are you recommending a 2G head & intake manifold for 2.4 litres of displacement?

Anyway, Boosting the 4g64 is good and what I'd recommend. A relatively "square" stroker w/ high compression!

Also a G4cs block from a hyundai is the 6-bolt version of the 4g64. This means that it will handle lots more power. A good swap later on. If you've already converted your setup to the 4g63 head and turbo components, this is basically a 500+ hp capable upgrade to the block. W/ a big turbo and plenty of fuel/intercooling, you'll be eating v6 swaps for afternoon tea.

 

[Jaedon]

wow ... thanks everyone for your responses. I have quite a bit of information here to review (as well as learning what it all means ) and I will be taking these suggestions with me when I go looking for a shop. I have found a Mitsu guru mechanic here in the Toronto area where I live through a friend who has a '93 Talon AWD. He will be talking with him on my behalf later today and hopefully betting an appointment set up for me to drop the car off for the rebuild/swap/boost work for the fall just before I put it away for the winter. I am having the stereo and alarm worked on today and then the body work and rag top replaced in the next few weeks, then I will enjoy it for the summer and wait for the real fun to begin.

Are there any DSM shops in Canada, specifically in the Toronto area? Just in case the afore mentioned mechanic doesn't have the availability (he is highly sought after).

 

[drivemusicnow]

Great post Greg. It makes me want to swap a 2.4L into a blown 3g spider here for sale !

A question. Why are you recommending a 2G head & intake manifold for 2.4 litres of displacement?

Anyway, Boosting the 4g64 is good and what I'd recommend. A relatively "square" stroker w/ high compression!

Also a G4cs block from a hyundai is the 6-bolt version of the 4g64. This means that it will handle lots more power. A good swap later on. If you've already converted your setup to the 4g63 head and turbo components, this is basically a 500+ hp capable upgrade to the block. W/ a big turbo and plenty of fuel/intercooling, you'll be eating v6 swaps for afternoon tea.

The advantage the 2.4 is going to have in a setup like this would be complimented by the smaller runner 2g head. He won't be revving very high, an while the air flow will be higher, with stock cams and a small turbo, he would probably find the increased port velocity of the 2g head to provide a larger area of usuable area under the torque curve. Now, this is really just getting into speculation at this point, but the 2.4 setups that run smaller turbos on the stock 2g heads seem to do quite well, and put down some decent numbers from the few dyno graphs i've seen (dont' have time to link right now)

I would modify my post to include the 16g rather than just a 14b. The hotside of the 14b is just a bit too small to be efficient on that type of motor.