Lifters wont pump?

[TurboTalonAwd95]

Ok so after putting a rebuilt head in my car and it not starting after like 2500 in parts and labor from a mechanic, i was reading that you need to bleed the lifters...so i took them out cleaned them exactly the way the vfaq said to and when i put the paper clip into the hole to depress the valve and pump them they wont budge AT ALL!! i thnk maby a few move a 1/16 of an inch up and down but shold they be this hard to move?? and to top it all off the paper clip broke off inside the lifter.......damn.... so my questios are
1.) should they be this hard to pump and 2.) since i screwed up of of them will a set of
1g lifters fit on my 2g head? or should i just go 2g stock or revised...thanks for any help guys...this car is giving me HELL!!

 

[SBR Joe]

Ok so after putting a rebuilt head in my car and it not starting after like 2500 in parts and labor from a mechanic, i was reading that you need to bleed the lifters...so i took them out cleaned them exactly the way the vfaq said to and when i put the paper clip into the hole to depress the valve and pump them they wont budge AT ALL!! i thnk maby a few move a 1/16 of an inch up and down but shold they be this hard to move?? and to top it all off the paper clip broke off inside the lifter.......damn.... so my questios are
1.) should they be this hard to pump and 2.) since i screwed up of of them will a set of
1g lifters fit on my 2g head? or should i just go 2g stock or revised...thanks for any help guys...this car is giving me HELL!!

The 1g ones will fit but are a HUGE downgrade to the 2g ones. For the cost of a new set of revised ones, you would be much better off going that route.


Joe
SBR

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

also. if they were not previously bleed and this hard to move..then would they bend the valves when trying to start it?

 

[SBR Joe]

also. if they were not previously bleed and this hard to move..then would they bend the valves when trying to start it?

Absoultely possible. I put a head together that had the 1g lifters in it and they were sitting in parts cleaner for a few weeks and wouldnt move but didnt notice it until i torqued the cam caps down it made all the valves open because the lifters would not budge. Got revised lifters init and worked fine.


Joe
SBR

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

ok, the lifters in now are from a rebuilt head i bought off here and could have sat for months. now if they did bend the valves, do you think that it would give me a compression reading of about 25 accross the board? because the mechanic who "fixed" my car said that was the reading he got.
now on a personal note, if they bent all my valves would you go to the mechanic who put the head on and tried to start it bending the valves or the machine shop who assembeled and rebuilt the head??

 

[AK_4g63t]

I have recently upgraded to the 3mm 3G lifters so if you need some 2G ones I'll be happy to just give them to you.
-Donny

 

[SBR Joe]

ok, the lifters in now are from a rebuilt head i bought off here and could have sat for months. now if they did bend the valves, do you think that it would give me a compression reading of about 25 accross the board? because the mechanic who "fixed" my car said that was the reading he got.
now on a personal note, if they bent all my valves would you go to the mechanic who put the head on and tried to start it bending the valves or the machine shop who assembeled and rebuilt the head??

Id be suprised if it showed that much compression. Most of the bent valve cars i have seen had zero psi. If it was assembled with the bad lifters that caused the bent valves, that should have been noticed by the machine shop beings all the valves would be pushed open, it could have also been timed wrong by the shop that did it...who knows.


Joe
SBR

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

AK 4g63/ donny .. that would be awsome if you could give them to me. wethere they bent the valves or not i do need a new pair because these are junk! are they in good shape? acutally move and pump, unlike mine.... so do you guys think that if they dont move that they are holding the valves open or closed or does it not matter open or closed it may of bent them?? because i have VERY low compression.

 

[SBR Joe]

AK 4g63/ donny .. that would be awsome if you could give them to me. wethere they bent the valves or not i do need a new pair because these are junk! are they in good shape? acutally move and pump, unlike mine.... so do you guys think that if they dont move that they are holding the valves open or closed or does it not matter open or closed it may of bent them?? because i have VERY low compression.

If they are stuck open. then the valves will stay open, if they are stuck compressed, they probably will not open. The only way to know for sure is to take the head off and have it looked at. Youll know right away if the valves hit the pistons, there will be marks, and if it was due to the lifters being stuck open, all the valves will be open as well.


Joe
SBR

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

what i mean was...if my lifters are bad, then would they hold the valves open and THAT would be giving me low compression

or

does it not matter weither they are being help open or closed. not matter WHAT!! the valves got bent?? sorry ya i re-read it and it doesn't make sense hopefully this does

 

[AK_4g63t]

Yeah, send me a message with your address and i'll send them. I know that 2 of them only move about .001mm, , 2 of them move half way, and the rest are good. Just pick the best 16 from yuours and mine and you should be good. I had them sitting in brake cleaner for a week so they're already cleaned and everything. It may or may not have bent the valves... For the most part, your cam shafts do the major valve moving.
-Donny

 

[SBR Joe]

what i mean was...if my lifters are bad, then would they hold the valves open and THAT would be giving me low compression

or

does it not matter weither they are being help open or closed. not matter WHAT!! the valves got bent?? sorry ya i re-read it and it doesn't make sense hopefully this does

If the valves are stuck open then it will bend valves. It may not be the case in your situation but is likely. If your lifters are as bad as the kids that i put the head together for and it was started...then i uarantee they are bent. But you wont know for sure unless you yank the head.


Joe
SBR

 

[AK_4g63t]

Yeah, the lifters are from a 95 7-bolt. I'll get them out to you probobly tomorrow. I would do a leak down test to see where your compression problem is comming from. Also, see if your exhaust cam is 180 degrees off. That will cause it to not build compression and not start.
-Donny

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

ya well i have to double check how many of mine work. If the two sets combines together equal 16 good ones ill install them and do another compression and leakdown test. but like i said before i broke off a paperclip in one of them so i cant do anything untill i get a good set. If the vavles are bent im going to a laywer to see if the mechanic and machine shop can be help responsible.

before the head was installed i saw it and the valves looked good, not sticking out. but i could be wrong. the lifters would not compress by hand but maby they were when the car was turning over???: but no matter what i still have a compression problem somewhere

 

[AK_4g63t]

"non sticking out = tulipped
Before you call a lawyer I would preform a leakdown test to see if air is actually comming from the intake or exhaust to see if your valves are bent. Then I would call the shop who installed your head and ask if they could look at it since they installed it. I'd also call the shop who fixed your head and tell them your situation also and see what they say. If the people who installed it check it out and find something wrong that wasn't theire doing, then you know who to talk to. If the timming is off or something like that, then the shop who installed it should be the one to talk to. If it was something that neither of them did.... go get some more $$$ and get on it!
-Donny

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

well the mechanic "said" he did both compression and leak down and he didnt hear anything from the intake or exhaust. so he started it and it wouldnt so THEN he did the compression test finding about 25 per cyc. any saying its the dowel pins so thats why i didnt think it was the head's vavletrain itself but maby the block not sealing properly, because bent valves is like 0 comp.. but i tested the lifters anyways and found there very stiff. im thinkin if anything there being slightly held open.. another member in another post told me it may be my rings... but the timing on the cams them looks fine. the two marks in the cams should face eachother no? not really shure what else it may be

 

[AK_4g63t]

Well if each cylinder can only hold 25psi, where's the rest going? it has to go somewhere so preform a leak down test with more than 25psi and it should start comming out of somewhere. If the head had too much material removed I have heard of having to file the dowels down a bit to make them seat the head to the block properly. Also, check the exhaust cam, there are 2 marks on it. Look at your timming, get cylinder 1 at DTC and see if the dowel that's on the exhaust cam is facing up, not down. Check all of that and you should find your problem.
-Donny

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

yep. when the two timing marks are alligned and facing eachother, the dowel pins are facing up on both of the cam gears. will triple check but im pretty shure all timing is set right. and i check and it seem all of the intake side lifters are the ones not moving.

even with the new lifters im suspecting its going to be other problems.
a: something went wrong when setting the cam timing and valves were bent...
b: piston, piston ring, or cylinder wall problem on all cylinders.
c: head gasket problem or did not seal...due to dowels
d: maby my head is warped...i did blow the valve at 20psi but the car never overheated...according to the temp gauge.

so Im thinking of getting a set of new revised lifters, installing, check all timing, leakdown and compression test and HOPEFULLY it will run. if not i will have to remove the head and check for warpage/shave the guiding dowels/damages valves.??

thanks for all the help AK / donny

 

[AK_4g63t]

Yeah, I have those lifters still if you want but I think just getting the 3mm 3G ones for $99 is a better idea vs. having 2 sets and trying to make a good one. But let me know if you still want them, they're in a box right now ready to go. Is your car with you or still at the shop? You should do this before anything: Leakdown test! . I'm telling you, this will tell you what the hell is going on with your and where your problem is. Man, if you put a rebuilt head on your car it shouldn't be warped.
A: I don't think your valves are bent because your vehicle is still timmed correctly right now. Also if you bent the valves you would have 0psi across the board, not 25psi.
B: If you had piston, rings, or clearance issues you would be able to feel the air from the leakdown test comming from your oil cap. So the leakdown test will let you konw if any of these are an issue.
C: A leakdown test would tell you this. Air would be comming from the headgasket area.. you could feel it and hear it.
D: If the head is warped then you would have different compression numbers in each cylinder correct? But if your head is rebuilt it should be straight and true.
-Donny

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

Ya im think im just gon get the 3g's.. where did you get your's ak? theres revised 3g's on ebay for 79$. but ya good point. the compression would be different if the head is warped, and ya thats what i was thinking about the valves but SB joe said that they probably bent...

But the car is at my house but i dont have a compressor anymore so im gon have to go get one.. I will and then ill do the leakdown and while im at in im gona get a compression tester. Thanks and ill post back with results

 

[AK_4g63t]

Good plan. Yeah, I also got mine off of ebay. They had some for $75 but I didn't know who made them and what not so I just bought the OEM ones for $90 I think. Keep us posted.
-Donny

 

[GVR4592]

Did you bleed them?

 

[GVR4592]

http://vfaq.com/mods/lifters.html Just follow the instructions for bleeding. Sometimes you have to wiggle the paper clip around to hit the plunger just right, or the lifter won't depress. Good luck.

 

[TurboTalonAwd95]

yeah, I know how to do it but thanks anyways. They are Bleed and ready to go in,but i still need to do leakdown and compression test because before the pull i had low compression and no start but i have no compressor or compression tester. so....

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[TurboTalonAwd95]

Lifters in but still wont start....before the install, when trying to start it, it went slow and you could hear it had no compression.

Now, after the install of the new lifters. it sounds like it wants to turn over but it wont. checked, spark, fuel, and timing....leaky injector but i cleaned and restalled and still nothing.???

and on that note....question....i have a 225 walboro fuel pump, 550 cc injectors, SAFC II, and aeromotive FPR....what you guys think i should be runnin for fuel pressure??