Buddy just picked up a talon...just some opinions needed

[Integra]

Hey everyone. Great board. I was on dsmtalk but started seeing the same answer over and over with no real technical prowess behind it.


Back on topic. My buddy wanted a nice cheap car to get him through the winter....a beater if you will....well I spotted http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1835988 that car on Honda-tech and figured it would fit his bill.

He was ecstatic. We decided this woudn't be a beater at all but our next project car.

Right now...we are tenatively looking into converting it over to manual. Now I know this is quite challenging to do but hopefully we will be able to do it. I took the engine out of my car and tore it down to send it off for sleeving...got it back reassembled it, and put it back in so I'm not totally inept at that sort of thing.

So anyways...that's the immediate plan besides buying a balance shaft eliminator kit to fix the aforementioned problem listed in the link.

After that, we plan on doing the normal stuff...upgrade the turbo, manifold, and fuel system and all that jazz. His goals are modest...he said if he hit 300 whp, he'd be happy. I think it's very feasible with the super 16g but I haven't done a lot of research into which turbo he will be using.

So thats it. Any suggestions or comments are welcome. I just want to see if I"m being reasonable about our plans. Any input is very much appreciated.

 

[DRated]

Well there's a lot of places you can go to see help. This board under the tech/diy tab in the upper left, will talk about all the stuff to do before modding. Of course, it'll also talk about the parts you need to get to complete the stage 2 (350-400).

There's also a couple other performance websites: machv.com, extrememotorsports.com, dsmparts.com, extremepsi.com, etc...

My opinion would be to fix all the DSM nuisances first. Then hit the bolt on power mods.

Andrew

 

[Nicks2319]

Sounds like a modest goal. The tranny swap is going to suck though....heres some links to help ya out...


http://www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/autotomanual.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206335
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144308
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152632

 

[Locke]

AT->MT swaps are difficult to the inept. If you have a shop and a fair amount of mechanical aptitude, it is not very difficult.

And DSM's arent Honda's. 300whp is a very basic goal.

Read http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dynosheets.php

 

[Integra]

AT->MT swaps are difficult to the inept. If you have a shop and a fair amount of mechanical aptitude, it is not very difficult.

And DSM's arent Honda's. 300whp is a very basic goal.

Read http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/dynosheets.php

I understand that and in no way was trying to imply they were. That's why I'm trying to do as much research on this as I can.

My engine in my honda is built for over 600 whp so it's not like I just threw it together.


My plans are to help him get the thing running well and then start looking into the tranny swap. Personally...I think the car was a steal. Aside from the rattle, the engine idles very very smoothly.

 

[Integra]

Sounds like a modest goal. The tranny swap is going to suck though....heres some links to help ya out...


http://www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/autotomanual.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206335
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144308
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152632

, yeah, I know. That's the biggest hump we have to get over right now. I am confident I can build a very nice engine package for him, it's just the tranny I am on edge about. Thanks for the links. Much appreciated.

Another thing I noticed is tuning. For hondas, we have neptune, hondata, crome, etc etc etc...from what i read, there's something about a palm logger? I am used to EMS's or piggybacks so this will definitely be a whole new world for me.

 

[Locke]

For tuning, your best bet would be to look into DSMlink. You will like. Maybe look at Keydiver as well.

 

[Dream On]

Swapping to a manual may cost you more than the car. You'd have to get the pedals (which are a bi*** to take out by the way), shifter, cables, transmission, clutch, flywheel, transfer case, and rear end. Not sure about the driveshaft and axles though. It's a lot of work and money.

 

[MollEclipse]

ive done the auto to manual swap so if you have any ?'s i may be able to help

 

[calcifer]

What's the budget for this project?

 

[Integra]

Well...I told him to be patient and he will have to save up...as of right now, he has 4,000 to play with, but we'll probably spend 500 to tune it up.

So that leaves 3500 for the transmission swap (obviously way more than we need)....and even though I'm not telling him, he will probably have to wait until next spring (so he can save up some money) to start with the power mods.

I'm a realist. I've been through a turbo build. I understand how expensive it is. Sucks but you have to be very patient.

 

[Integra]

ive done the auto to manual swap so if you have any ?'s i may be able to help

Thanks. Much appreciated. I will definitely be contacting you after all the parts are gathered.

 

[MollEclipse]

when your looking for your clutch and flywheel make sure you buy them for the transmission you have.

If you have a turbo transmission get a turbo flywheel and clutch ( the stepped flywheel).

If you have a N/T transmission( from what ive read a better one for your swap) get a N/T flywheel and clutch(the flat flywheel).

If not you wont be able to disengage your clutch. I thought i had a turbo trans. but after months of messing with my wrong clutch and 20+ times pulling the trans out i checked the vin number on the bellhousing and its a N/T so I had to buy another clutch and flywheel.

You can still get a strong clutch/flywheel to handle your turbo if you have a N/T trans. But dont search for a turbo clutch/flywheel if its not a turbo trans.

 

[TalonTsi31]

sounds like a good goal but please stop talking about any thing that has to do with your honda

 

[scottsee]

the 'tapping from the head' is more likely to be lifter tick, not your ballance shaft. Get some revised lifters. I would keep the automatic, its not worth the $, save it for other stuff..

Welcome aboard..

 

[boostin92awd]

I would also agree to keeping the automatic youd be surprised how far an auto tranny would go with a high stall torque converter,exspecially it being awd.

 

[Integra]

sounds like a good goal but please stop talking about any thing that has to do with your honda

Nah...if you don't like it, just hit "back" on your browser and head to the next thread.

I'm just sharing it to illustrate my experience and know how....the info may help someone give me advice.

 

[ibrkalot]

For tuning, your best bet would be to look into DSMlink. You will like. Maybe look at Keydiver as well.

Youre not going to get the besttune or most performance from a keydiver, but it is better than running a stock ecu. I got a keydiver for mine quite some time back mainly because I did not know much about dsm's or tuning ect. and this seemed to be the most simple route for me to go. I have no complaints. It really is a pretty simplistic solution imo

 

[Integra]

Well....after talking with him a bit tonight at the gym...we've decided to keep the auto tranny and upgrade it to handle the power...I have to do a bit more research on this, however.

 

[Low Impedance]

keep the auto, build it up alittle and youll be set to go for half the cost of going a manual,and have an indestructible driveline (with in reason)

 

[Integra]

keep the auto, build it up alittle and youll be set to go for half the cost of going a manual,and have an indestructible driveline (with in reason)

Yes. I agree. And that's the route I believe I will be taking.

After doing about 10 minutes of research, I see that a shift kit is a must along with a tranny cooler...gotta read lots more, though.

Like I said, his goals are fairly modest...300 hp will suffice he said...I asked him if he wanted it to the wheels and he said he didn't mind either way. But trust me, I want to get him 300 to the wheels.

 

[Low Impedance]

look into an end clutch kit as well. The stock converter should work fine, so dont bother with an aftermarket one. Use the rest of the money to replace the balljoints/control arms and u-joints that tend to go bad.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

Yeah, stay auto. Auto+BigTurbo= No Lag fun!!

Load the motor off the line from the stall, build 10-12 psi, launch, bam, instant spool! Hit 20 psi and never let off!!

The shift kit is pretty simple to do, just be careful with the manual valve, if you don't get it lined up properly, it'll crack and not work. You'll have to drop the pan yet again, and replace it. ATF isn't cheap!!!!!!!

For his goal, the evo3 16g would be the perfect turbo, or something like the PTE5031 (bb or not) Shoot, the stock 14b can get him into the 12s!

 

[Integra]

Yeah, stay auto. Auto+BigTurbo= No Lag fun!!

Load the motor off the line from the stall, build 10-12 psi, launch, bam, instant spool! Hit 20 psi and never let off!!

The shift kit is pretty simple to do, just be careful with the manual valve, if you don't get it lined up properly, it'll crack and not work. You'll have to drop the pan yet again, and replace it. ATF isn't cheap!!!!!!!

For his goal, the evo3 16g would be the perfect turbo, or something like the PTE5031 (bb or not) Shoot, the stock 14b can get him into the 12s!

Is that the same turbo as the super 16g? I was scouting the super 16g and really liked what I saw.

Obviously we want to keep the cost down as much as possible otherwise, for his goals, I would be getting him the GT28RS for it's insanely fast spool.

 

[TSIMonsteR]

the super 16g is HRC, correct? Not worth it at all. The MHI Evo3 16g would easily be better. Turbochargers.com has an evo3 16g for $499. Slowboy got 390hp out of the same turbo.

Not a big fan of HRC turbos for their price. The GT28RS would be a WASTE on a dsm. Honestly, with the stock 14b, many people pull 290+whp on the dyno. Personally, I would try maxing the 14b out first (ie, get fuel, logging/tunning stuff first) then you'll realize what the little 14b is capable of (16g turbos using the same housings)